|
Post by superteacher on Feb 14, 2019 6:04:55 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 14, 2019 6:46:30 GMT
|
|
|
Post by melikepie on Feb 14, 2019 8:20:20 GMT
What would happen if you get someone colourblind?
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Feb 14, 2019 9:01:49 GMT
IMO red doesn't seem a clever choice of colour, especially given that signal cabins are still equipped with red flags for use in emergencies.
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Feb 14, 2019 9:18:46 GMT
It's a good thing for folk to know who the staff are; but this is a bit like a US burger bar.
|
|
|
Post by 35b on Feb 14, 2019 10:13:45 GMT
They stand out more than the blue uniforms. However, the wider issue is how frequently staff are clustered together chatting at larger stations, and not positioning themselves to help when people have problems with gates.
|
|
|
Post by trt on Feb 14, 2019 10:23:54 GMT
I like the idea of a reversible vest, because that means the hi-vis is always going to be to hand for emergency use (instead of stuffed into a pocket or bum bag), but as pointed out above, red is a danger signal and you do still get staff on platform who are not on SATS (Station Assistant Train Services) duty, e.g. those who are assisting VIPs (Visually Impaired Person{s}).
Interesting that TfL themselves say "Staff will have the red side visible for customer service duties in ticket halls and around gatelines, while the orange side will be visible when dispatching trains, assisting on platforms and in emergencies." (my emphasis). I thought the current state of play was that the trains were driver/self-dispatched, with the SATS & bats being advisory only. Does this mean that assisting a VIP on platform or doing security checks will mean constantly reversing the vest as they move from area to area?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,770
|
Post by Chris M on Feb 14, 2019 11:53:08 GMT
It's not a bad idea, but the design they've gone with isn't the best. I saw a staff member at the entrance to Goodge Street a couple of days ago giving someone directions and thought they were a Big Issue seller at first - comments on facebook suggest that I'm far from the only person to have made that mistake.
Of course it would have been better to design a uniform that stood out in the first place, not reduced staff numbers and not removed the central point of contact in the ticket hall, but using experience to learn what everyone told you would happen before you did it is the modern way it seems.
|
|
|
Post by John Tuthill on Feb 14, 2019 12:10:38 GMT
What would happen if you get someone colourblind? "GET SOMEONE" Does that refer to the LU staff member, or a passenger? I'd of thought, and I would if it was me,write the usage discreetly on the article so I'd know which side to show. Simples!
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 14, 2019 12:44:48 GMT
....thought they were a Big Issue seller at first. Cheers Chris M , I've just spat my noodles out.
|
|
|
Post by philthetube on Feb 14, 2019 13:39:10 GMT
I see a potential issue not mentioned here.
Hi vis jacket lose colour and reflectiveness with washing with washing, if they are usually worn as a lining to a jacket they will become dirty quickly and will need frequent washing reducing life.
I am sure this has been given as a reason in the past as to why jackets were not made reversible.
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 14, 2019 14:32:06 GMT
I see a potential issue not mentioned here. Hi vis jacket lose colour and reflectiveness with washing with washing, if they are usually worn as a lining to a jacket they will become dirty quickly and will need frequent washing reducing life. I am sure this has been given as a reason in the past as to why jackets were not made reversible. Has nobody considered the potential for serious injury to staff wearing red jackets should furious bulls ever get onto the system? No? Thought not. Modern management systems.........
|
|
|
Post by gals on Feb 14, 2019 17:04:53 GMT
They stand out more than the blue uniforms. However, the wider issue is how frequently staff are clustered together chatting at larger stations, and not positioning themselves to help when people have problems with gates. Absolutely. Staff always seem to congregate to chat, be on their phones, occasionally blocking the gateline to do this.
|
|
|
Post by Chris L on Feb 14, 2019 18:37:33 GMT
IMO red doesn't seem a clever choice of colour, especially given that signal cabins are still equipped with red flags for use in emergencies. which is why the red side is not to be worn on platforms.
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 14, 2019 19:12:39 GMT
Why do we need the red side at all? Can't the hiviz side be worn at all times, rather than have a quick-change artist act every time they go up and down the stairs.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,770
|
Post by Chris M on Feb 14, 2019 19:58:06 GMT
IMO red doesn't seem a clever choice of colour, especially given that signal cabins are still equipped with red flags for use in emergencies. which is why the red side is not to be worn on platforms. Why do we need the red side at all? Can't the hiviz side be worn at all times, rather than have a quick-change artist act every time they go up and down the stairs. At some stations, e.g. South Woodford eastbound, the gateline is on the platform - what colour should be showing there? At others, e.g. Uxbridge, there is no clear dividing line between ticket hall and platforms... How long before someone forgets to change it over?
|
|
|
Post by Jerome H on Feb 15, 2019 1:14:35 GMT
I've visited this thread a few times since it's inception and I honestly can't see what all the fuss is about. I've thought about it from the perspective of the staff who'll spend a few extra seconds at the start of their shift making sure their vest is the right way round, the passengers in the station who actually need to find said members of staff, the folks who are up in arms over their job duties plastered on the back of their uniform, and the management who'll spend time making sure this policy is enforced properly ... and it all just feels so trivial one way or another. We've had various hats, pink vests, orange vests, etc. to identify staff, but red vests?? The nerve!!
What am I missing?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 1:53:59 GMT
It's a bit patronising?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,770
|
Post by Chris M on Feb 15, 2019 2:29:55 GMT
@jeromeh the main issues are the potential for the red vests to be confused with an emergency signal when on the platform necessitating it being frequently reversed multiple times a day (probably annoying and time consuming) - afaik this has never been an issue with any previous uniform/vest/jacket/tabard/whatever. That they look very similar to the red vests worn by official Big Issue sellers, who are frequently seen around the entrances to tube stations, is poor design work on the part of LU (as is the uniform not standing out in the first place) but that's only a minor issue.
|
|
|
Post by Jerome H on Feb 15, 2019 3:01:59 GMT
Possibly for the staff who can resort to cracking jokes over it on break "oh make me a cup of tea, after all you're here to help", or for the daily commuters who wouldn't dare ask for help and think it's an insult to the spirit of London, or the tourists who spent the time learning how to say "are you a customer service assistant, I need your guidance on navigating this marvel of engineering that has withstood the test of time". I guess if one finds it patronizing they aren't the target audience. @jeromeh the main issues are the potential for the red vests to be confused with an emergency signal when on the platform necessitating it being frequently reversed multiple times a day (probably annoying and time consuming) - afaik this has never been an issue with any previous uniform/vest/jacket/tabard/whatever. That they look very similar to the red vests worn by official Big Issue sellers, who are frequently seen around the entrances to tube stations, is poor design work on the part of LU (as is the uniform not standing out in the first place) but that's only a minor issue. Chris - I appreciate the insight. I haven't a clue what an emergency signal looks like, but by that logic couldn't any passenger in a red shirt trigger a false alarm? A waved flag looks very different than an article of clothing at rest and I doubt TfL are asking their staff to wave their coworkers in red vests around to signal danger (could you imagine seeing that on a platform). Alright I've worn out my attempts at bad satire - I'll chime back in when red sashes or a whole new alternative uniform with red as the base color is released - or they realize an orange hi-vis is a natural attention seeker and change policy after giving everyone these new vests. If there's a strike over this and I ever make it over there during a forum meet there'll be a round on me!
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 15, 2019 3:42:40 GMT
|
|
|
Post by patrickb on Feb 15, 2019 4:27:06 GMT
Why fix something that isn't broken.
These red tabards really do look like an imposition. Nothing more than another weak effort to remedy the serious issues of staff shortages and sugarcoat it as a means of 'helping' customers.
I welcome the action from Unions at this point.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 7:16:18 GMT
If they are uncomfortable to wear - that's a valid reason to strike. Using them as an excuse to strike against past job cuts - not so much.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 15, 2019 8:05:13 GMT
Here's London TravelWatch's review of ticket office closures that TfL say prompted the red vests. The section on "Key Findings" states:- Among the Recommendations were:- The survey found that:- www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/documents/get_lob?id=4291&field=fileFrom the number of stations left unstaffed or having to close due to "staff absence" its blatantly obvious that the real reason passengers can't find staff is there aren't enough. If they wanted them to be more visible they could just have easily told them to put on the orange hi-vis they've already got, red vests are merely a publicity stunt so that management can avoid dealing with the actual problem. PS, just after I wrote this the Central Line Twitter feed announced that step free access at Buckhurst Hill isn't available as there's no staff there to deploy the ramp from train to platform. Ironic.
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 15, 2019 8:11:13 GMT
Just a gentle reminder at this point that we'd not like to see this deteriorate into a discussion over whether the unions are right or wrong. It becomes political and gets people's backs up. Hence Rule 4 which everybody signed up to.
|
|
|
Post by trt on Feb 15, 2019 11:10:26 GMT
That a shift consists of several different duties performed in different places at different times, and there's also PNRs (Personal Needs Reliefs) and meal breaks. So it's not a once a shift thing, it's all the ruddy time. What are you supposed to do when you're officially off duty at lunch or whatever? Take your vest off altogether? Because if one is sat outside shivering in the cold having a fag, and throwing oneself gladly into one's phone in order to escape all the hideousness of having to deal with the travelling public, one is most definitely not happy to help.
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 15, 2019 12:43:46 GMT
If they are reversible, they must be double-thickness, which will make them more uncomfortable in hot weather - and the "weather" in some deep level stations can be hot at any time of year.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,770
|
Post by Chris M on Feb 15, 2019 13:46:30 GMT
That a shift consists of several different duties performed in different places at different times One example is escorting a visually impaired passenger from the ticket hall to the train - the staff member will apparently have to stop at the entrance to the platform (often a very busy area with nowhere out of the way) while they change their tabard from red to orange, then resume - if the VIP hasn't been swept away by the crowd by this point. There are also duties during the day where the staff member is engaged in something that means they are not happy to help other passengers. There are many examples but the most recent I observed was at Green Park when the lift to the Piccadilly line had broken and a CSA (I presume) was trying to ascertain whether anybody was stuck in it.
|
|
|
Post by SunSeeker on Feb 15, 2019 16:47:59 GMT
Main issue I have is the 'Here to help' which implies staff are there to help with anything.
Over the years I have lost count how many times I have been asked to carry things such as prams or suitcases (answer is always no from me unless they are elderly), or asked where is the nearest coffeeshop, or what time the local supermarket closes. It will only get worse with lazy customers expectations.
Secondly being 'forced' to wear it is simply a joke. Summer days it gets extremely hot and even with just a shirt or polo, can't help but sweat. Any warm day and I will swiftly refuse to wear under H&S.
Not to mention it looks terrible and from what I have heard from others the quality of the manufacturing is nowhere near good enough.
Fortunately I am not on the gate line any more but mostly in the control room, I will still back any action RMT deems necessary.
|
|
|
Post by zbang on Feb 15, 2019 17:16:11 GMT
As someone who isn't a regular rider, this really sounds like a solution in search of a problem. (I can't recall ever having to hunt for help, if anything, the stations seem better staffed than the ones around here (San Francisco etc) although that's usually a low bar.)
|
|