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Post by stapler on Dec 14, 2019 14:26:33 GMT
Duty sheets now available, revealing: West Ruislip: 920 M-Th, 918 F. White City: 820 nights M-Th, 840 nights F, 817 F. Leytonstone: 612 M-F, 627 M-Th, 637 F, 648 nights F (Sat AM). Loughton: none Hainault: 406 407 411 433 449 453 M-Th, 404 411 415 419 431 436 442 449 Sat, 404 407 416 418 434 Sun. Unlucky 411 does 4hrs and 433 does over 7hrs! .......sorry, D stock...are these stints on the Hainault-Woodford shuttle? |
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Post by MoreToJack on Dec 14, 2019 15:18:11 GMT
Yep.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 14, 2019 15:47:30 GMT
Hang on, " 820 nights M-Th"? When did White City get night duties? It used to be Leytonstone and Hainault. And 820 is a bit of a low number for nights, do they only have 19 "day" turns? Leytonstone's nights are 637, 638, 639 and 649 (spare). Apologies, 820 WCity is an early. Leytonstone nights will be 639 640 641 652 |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Dec 22, 2019 17:07:26 GMT
From the ASLEF Central Line East branch whatsapp
I believe the word we are looking for is "whoops".
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Post by Chris M on Dec 22, 2019 17:41:00 GMT
Some acronyms and jargon in that. I think:
reps = union representatives
toms = Train Operation(s?) Managers
clip = Central Line Improvement Programme
gsm = Group Station Manager
drm = Duty (or Driver?) Resource Manager (this is the one I'm least certain about)
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I presume that "the moves off Hainault platform 1 to go direct in to Hainault" means going into the depot?
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Post by superteacher on Dec 22, 2019 18:38:02 GMT
Are you telling me that they went ahead with the new timetable without testing the 4 car trains? If so then a new level of incompetence has been been reached.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 22, 2019 19:10:34 GMT
Some acronyms and jargon in that. I think: reps = union representatives toms = Train Operation(s?) Managers clip = Central Line Improvement Programme gsm = Group Station Manager drm = Duty (or Driver?) Resource Manager (this is the one I'm least certain about) --- I presume that "the moves off Hainault platform 1 to go direct in to Hainault" means going into the depot?
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 22, 2019 20:46:19 GMT
From the ASLEF Central Line East branch whatsapp I believe the word we are looking for is "whoops". At least the "whoops" was out of hours  |
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 22, 2019 20:50:29 GMT
Are you telling me that they went ahead with the new timetable without testing the 4 car trains? If so then a new level of incompetence has been been reached. Fear ye not, there are more levels to go!   |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Dec 23, 2019 6:04:04 GMT
DRM = Duty Reliability Manager.
Also GSMs were replaced by Area Managers under Fit for the Future so I guess this particular driver isn't up with the changes to station grades.
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Post by programmes1 on Dec 23, 2019 9:29:53 GMT
Timetable now on TfL site WTT70 |
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Post by drainrat on Dec 23, 2019 14:41:22 GMT
From the ASLEF Central Line East branch whatsapp I believe the word we are looking for is "whoops". Got this from the Ruislip rep other day. Reminds me of the time they had to give pardon to many, many drivers having SPADs on the Jubbly extension after test track drivers and the reps complained SPADs would be common on certain signals once passenger loading took place. First time a passenger train went from Canning Town to North Greenwich and saw a yellow on the repeater, the driver knew there was no way he'd stop 😳 all because they thought the valuable insight of the test track drivers wasn't necessary. Just drivers trying to be awkward again by being negative 🙄 I believe the first engineering works closure on the extension was within a year of opening and solely to sight the offending signals before moving them 😂 Nothing new under the sun ☀️ |
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 23, 2019 23:15:10 GMT
So what is to happen now?
Whenever one of these short trains is going to the depot it must travel to Newbury Park (travelling in public service?) and reverse direction of travel there so that it can access the depot via Hainault station platform 3?
This may sound cumbersome but it is only a couple of trains and who knows .. it might be cheaper and easier to do this than add extra power supply rails at Hainault depot!
As an aside, the RAT train reverses at Newbury Park in this way, so maybe no signalling changes will be needed.
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Post by jimbo on Dec 24, 2019 0:57:01 GMT
From the ASLEF Central Line East branch whatsapp I believe the word we are looking for is "whoops". Got this from the Ruislip rep other day. Reminds me of the time they had to give pardon to many, many drivers having SPADs on the Jubbly extension after test track drivers and the reps complained SPADs would be common on certain signals once passenger loading took place. First time a passenger train went from Canning Town to North Greenwich and saw a yellow on the repeater, the driver knew there was no way he'd stop 😳 all because they thought the valuable insight of the test track drivers wasn't necessary. Just drivers trying to be awkward again by being negative 🙄 I believe the first engineering works closure on the extension was within a year of opening and solely to sight the offending signals before moving them 😂 Nothing new under the sun ☀️ Reminds me of when R stock went to 7-car trains by taking a car from 8 car formations and putting it into 6-car formations. Before then the fault isolating switch was in the middle of 8-car trains, but could mean 2 cars pushing 4 cars in 6-car formation. We ended up with 2 cars having to move 5 cars in some new formations. Unions claimed it would never work up Bow Bank, but engineers had all the calculations to prove there was no problem. Practical drivers asked for a test run at Acton end of Ealing depot, as steep as Bow Bank. All the nobility were present to witness that it wouldn't budge, and they had to revise the rules! |
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Post by drainrat on Dec 24, 2019 5:48:39 GMT
So what is to happen now? Whenever one of these short trains is going to the depot it must travel to Newbury Park (travelling in public service?) and reverse direction of travel there so that it can access the depot via Hainault station platform 3? This may sound cumbersome but it is only a couple of trains and who knows .. it might be cheaper and easier to do this than add extra power supply rails at Hainault depot! As an aside, the RAT train reverses at Newbury Park in this way, so maybe no signalling changes will be needed. I'm sure they'll have a work through, knowing what that usually means, it'll be a rehash with little change to the proposed, a fair few late finishes and shortened turnarounds etc. Got this from the Ruislip rep other day. Reminds me of the time they had to give pardon to many, many drivers having SPADs on the Jubbly extension after test track drivers and the reps complained SPADs would be common on certain signals once passenger loading took place. First time a passenger train went from Canning Town to North Greenwich and saw a yellow on the repeater, the driver knew there was no way he'd stop 😳 all because they thought the valuable insight of the test track drivers wasn't necessary. Just drivers trying to be awkward again by being negative 🙄 I believe the first engineering works closure on the extension was within a year of opening and solely to sight the offending signals before moving them 😂 Nothing new under the sun ☀️ Reminds me of when R stock went to 7-car trains by taking a car from 8 car formations and putting it into 6-car formations. Before then the fault isolating switch was in the middle of 8-car trains, but could mean 2 cars pushing 4 cars in 6-car formation. We ended up with 2 cars having to move 5 cars in some new formations. Unions claimed it would never work up Bow Bank, but engineers had all the calculations to prove there was no problem. Practical drivers asked for a test run at Acton end of Ealing depot, as steep as Bow Bank. All the nobility were present to witness that it wouldn't budge, and they had to revise the rules! Emperors new clothes 🙄 |
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Post by Chris L on Dec 24, 2019 11:53:19 GMT
So what is to happen now? Whenever one of these short trains is going to the depot it must travel to Newbury Park (travelling in public service?) and reverse direction of travel there so that it can access the depot via Hainault station platform 3? This may sound cumbersome but it is only a couple of trains and who knows .. it might be cheaper and easier to do this than add extra power supply rails at Hainault depot! As an aside, the RAT train reverses at Newbury Park in this way, so maybe no signalling changes will be needed. I've just watched a video on the Vintage London Underground Trains Facebook page. It shows a train leaving Hainault platform 3 and passing through the washer. En route it shows a number of gaps and you can easily see why there might be problems for a short train. |
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Post by underover on Dec 24, 2019 12:24:53 GMT
As an aside, the RAT train reverses at Newbury Park in this way, so maybe no signalling changes will be needed. The RAT train at Hainault is 8 cars long, so no idea if this affects operating in this way as it is 8 cars to try prevent gapping. The 5 car they were using this year was under instruction from controller at certain parts of its run to ensure it can a clear path to try avoid gapping? |
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Post by towerman on Jan 3, 2020 13:46:03 GMT
Couple of questions.As I understand it these shuttles are made up of A&B units which don't carry de-icing gear,how does the loop get de-iced?Also if one or both of these shuttles are unfit for service,will they be subbed by 8 car trains?
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Post by scheduler on Jan 3, 2020 20:33:17 GMT
The new Working Timetable says one of the two 4 car units is a De-Icer
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Post by superteacher on Jan 4, 2020 0:06:06 GMT
One of the 4 car trains stables after the evening peak, its place taken by an 8 car train which is an all day runner.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 4, 2020 9:16:06 GMT
T171 is the 4-car de-icer, enters service at Hainault 05:47, stables at Hainault 19:50 and is replaced by T023, also a de-icer, starts up at Ruislip 06:53, stables at Woodford 00:39.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 4, 2020 10:17:36 GMT
As I understand it these shuttles are made up of A&B units which don't carry de-icing gear, how does the loop get de-iced? The new Working Timetable says one of the two 4 car units is a De-Icer T171 is the 4-car de-icer, enters service at Hainault 05:47, stables at Hainault 19:50 and is replaced by T023, also a de-icer, starts up at Ruislip 06:53, stables at Woodford 00:39. I think towerman was asking can they actually run a 4-car train carrying de-icing equipment ? As the 4-car would be made up A-B+B-A which don’t have de-icing cars. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 4, 2020 11:05:16 GMT
I think towerman was asking can they actually run a 4-car train carrying de-icing equipment ? As the 4-car would be made up A-B+B-A which don’t have de-icing cars. Surely they would know this. Oh hang on . . . |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 4, 2020 11:27:19 GMT
The working timetable shows train 34 that leaves Hainault at 0521 and runs via Chigwell to Leytonstone and then forms a service to Epping, shown as rostered for a de-icing unit and not one of the two 4 car shuttles. I haven't yet located an 8-car train running on the outer rail but doubtless there is one.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 4, 2020 13:23:31 GMT
Page 8, 9, 10 and 11 (Depot Workings) all have T171D and its listed as 171D throughout the timetable (first appearance Page 21).
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Post by superteacher on Jan 4, 2020 13:29:32 GMT
The working timetable shows train 34 that leaves Hainault at 0521 and runs via Chigwell to Leytonstone and then forms a service to Epping, shown as rostered for a de-icing unit and not one of the two 4 car shuttles. I haven't yet located an 8-car train running on the outer rail but doubtless there is one. There are no outer rail 8 car trains in the morning. |
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Post by ijmad on Jan 4, 2020 17:25:46 GMT
Can the 92TS run in a six car formation?
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Post by superteacher on Jan 7, 2020 21:08:29 GMT
Can the 92TS run in a six car formation? Yes, although I don’t think they ever have either in or out of passenger service. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 11, 2020 1:48:14 GMT
The latest from the ASLEF Central Line East WhatsApp group is that ASLEF and RMT both "believe management have not followed the correct process in the implementation" of WTT70 although no actual details of what the problem is.
There will be a meeting Thursday 16th to discuss the situation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 9:26:16 GMT
Page 8, 9, 10 and 11 (Depot Workings) all have T171D and its listed as 171D throughout the timetable (first appearance Page 21). But as the 4-car will have to be formed A-B+B-A, neither of those types of cars have de-icing equipment. |
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