|
|
Post by movingmillion on Nov 28, 2018 17:13:46 GMT
Hello there,
Just wondering what the route for the 1991 version of what was then known as CrossRail was? I understand that Abbey Wood was not an option, and that it may have gone to Aylesbury? Were there any other branches planned?
(Also would the 341 be the only rolling stock on the line?)
|
|
|
|
Post by phil on Nov 28, 2018 17:35:01 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by movingmillion on Nov 28, 2018 17:51:00 GMT
That Geocities link was absolutely fascinating; not only just what I wanted but so much more!
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Nov 28, 2018 18:09:56 GMT
I have a Crossrail mug from that time with the NSE style liveried rolling stock and the route map. Also tucked away somewhere in my files is a draft timetable for Crossrail showing trains to Reading and Aylesbury so quite a lot of detail had been worked up back then.
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Nov 28, 2018 21:51:28 GMT
That Geocities link was absolutely fascinating; not only just what I wanted but so much more! Yes, very, very and extremely interesting information. Including that there were to be 24 trains per hour to Ilford. That was probably about the same as the service which was already operating - using Class 315 trains. At that time the entire Class 315 fleet was on the route it was built for; namely replacing the LNER Class 306 trains between Liverpool Street - Shenfield. It was only later that some were hived off for WAGN services. I noted this information because at present the local service out of Liverpool Street only has just 15 trains in the peak hour, and even the present-day plans for the Lizzy line wont exceed 20 trains (16 in the tunnel, 4 direct to Liverpool St via the surface route). Admittedly when the Lizzy line opens the trains will be longer than today, but that is the future. Right now the trains are not longer than the trains of the early 1990's and I feel vindicated in suggesting that the real cause of the most horrendous overcrowding on the local service which calls at Ilford station is solely because there are significantly (eight!!!) fewer peak hour trains than there used to be. Restore the missing trains and then the overcrowding will ease. For the morning peak some trains should start their journeys from Ilford. That is the only viable way to make life easier at all other inner stations on the line. btw, having seen where the platform extensions end (at the western end of Ilford station) I am more determined than ever that a viable and safe solution could have been found to keep the bay platform in service. That is, if the desire had been there. Yes, this might have included selective door opening (as is planned for Maryland - so no-one can say that this would not be possible or safe at Ilford too). Returning to the Geocities link, I noted that it also has information about other planned railway services, such as the 'Chelney' line. Simon |
|
|
|
Post by grahamhewett on Nov 28, 2018 22:43:14 GMT
I have a Crossrail mug from that time with the NSE style liveried rolling stock and the route map. Also tucked away somewhere in my files is a draft timetable for Crossrail showing trains to Reading and Aylesbury so quite a lot of detail had been worked up back then. The thing had been designed in very great detail by the time BR was privatised. There were still arguments about the precise location of the substations and some minor matters like that but the whole thing was getting close to being a tenderable scheme - cue Treasury panic... (Hence the "Northern Crossrail" variant that the Treasury tried to use as a spoiler.) |
|
|
|
Post by theblackferret on Nov 29, 2018 12:47:48 GMT
I have a Crossrail mug from that time with the NSE style liveried rolling stock and the route map. Also tucked away somewhere in my files is a draft timetable for Crossrail showing trains to Reading and Aylesbury so quite a lot of detail had been worked up back then. The thing had been designed in very great detail by the time BR was privatised. There were still arguments about the precise location of the substations and some minor matters like that but the whole thing was getting close to being a tenderable scheme - cue Treasury panic... (Hence the "Northern Crossrail" variant that the Treasury tried to use as a spoiler.) Just in case you were wondering, I haven't seen a single commemorative mug or draft timetable on e-Bay. However, when the current edition finally starts up properly, you could be looking at Sotheby's. Hopefully more than just looking.............  |
|
|
|
Post by Deep Level on Nov 29, 2018 15:01:54 GMT
Why wasn't the Aylesbury branch considered for the modern version of Crossrail? Seems like a useful branch in my opinion and cheap to implement.
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 29, 2018 16:54:02 GMT
Why wasn't the Aylesbury branch considered for the modern version of Crossrail? Seems like a useful branch in my opinion and cheap to implement. At the time, it was seen as a way of closing Marylebone (Wycombe line trains would go to Paddington). No that cheap to implement though, as a connection would be needed from the Old Oak Common area to the line through Wembley Park. Some proposals used the Dudding Hill Line, but this would have involved a less than ideal routing and would still need new connections at each end. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 12:45:39 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by grahamhewett on Nov 30, 2018 17:35:04 GMT
Why wasn't the Aylesbury branch considered for the modern version of Crossrail? Seems like a useful branch in my opinion and cheap to implement. At the time, it was seen as a way of closing Marylebone (Wycombe line trains would go to Paddington). No that cheap to implement though, as a connection would be needed from the Old Oak Common area to the line through Wembley Park. Some proposals used the Dudding Hill Line, but this would have involved a less than ideal routing and would still need new connections at each end. That was certainly the case at the outset, but I turned down the last flickerings of the Marylebone closure when we buried the busway proposal in the late '80s. Fortunately, the design work for CrossRail to Aylesbury carried on unabated. |
|
|
|
Post by movingmillion on Nov 30, 2018 17:57:41 GMT
Maps look fantastic. Great work!
I have a basic idea of what Bishopsgate was going to be. Where exactly was the station going to be placed though?
|
|
|
|
Post by hptraveller on Nov 30, 2018 20:48:53 GMT
Bishopsgate was the original planned name for what was actually opened as Shoreditch High Street. I guess they decided in the end not to repeat the GER's deceptive name of a century and a half before!
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Dec 2, 2018 18:48:29 GMT
Regarding the Met, as a youngster at the time I recall the proposed Crossrail branch to Amersham and Aylesbury was planned to replace the Metropolitan beyond Watford North Junction/Rickmansworth. The Met would only run to Watford and Uxbridge with stock movements to Rickmansworth I guess in the same way as Olyimpia now operates mid week on the District. Crossrail would also cover Chesham although not shown on the maps provided in the links. The Met would have been decimated although the Croxley link would probably been built if the scheme has gone ahead. As the A stock was heading for retirement at the end of the 1990s the number of replacement trains would have been fewer and it is interesting to consider how the SSR upgrade would have panned out. Anyway I digress.. The interchange facilities proposed at Northwood and Pinner although I only remember them proposed at Northwood not have happened; I don’t know where the platforms would have gone at Pinner! Finally Rickmansworth station was to be rebuilt to remove the curved platform and move the station a platform length south. On a personal note I’m rather glad it all never happened..... |
|
|
|
Post by grahamhewett on Dec 3, 2018 15:52:22 GMT
Regarding the Met, as a youngster at the time I recall the proposed Crossrail branch to Amersham and Aylesbury was planned to replace the Metropolitan beyond Watford North Junction/Rickmansworth. The Met would only run to Watford and Uxbridge with stock movements to Rickmansworth I guess in the same way as Olyimpia now operates mid week on the District. Crossrail would also cover Chesham although not shown on the maps provided in the links. The Met would have been decimated although the Croxley link would probably been built if the scheme has gone ahead. As the A stock was heading for retirement at the end of the 1990s the number of replacement trains would have been fewer and it is interesting to consider how the SSR upgrade would have panned out. Anyway I digress.. The interchange facilities proposed at Northwood and Pinner although I only remember them proposed at Northwood not have happened; I don’t know where the platforms would have gone at Pinner! Finally Rickmansworth station was to be rebuilt to remove the curved platform and move the station a platform length south. The need to replace the A stock in the 1990s formed part of the business case for Crossrail at the time.... [Switches irony detector back on.] On a personal note I’m rather glad it all never happened..... |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Dec 4, 2018 8:34:13 GMT
Bishopsgate was the original planned name for what was actually opened as Shoreditch High Street. I guess they decided in the end not to repeat the GER's deceptive name of a century and a half before! Well before GER -- think you mean Eastern Counties! |
|
