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Post by spsmiler on Nov 8, 2021 20:25:56 GMT
Its a shame that I cannot get to Asfordby Test Track to see for myself (albeit external views only). All it needs is a bridge over the railway.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 9, 2021 13:53:52 GMT
Okay that’s good. Will there be photos posted of any external or internal changes appearance-wise, such as new doors, or new poles and seats on the inside! If people take some, then they'll probably be shared on here at some point. If nobody takes any photos then it gets a little bit harder. |
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Post by 35b on Nov 10, 2021 10:18:57 GMT
Its a shame that I cannot get to Asfordby Test Track to see for myself (albeit external views only). All it needs is a bridge over the railway. Not many bridges up there, and having driven down those lanes, I’d not be keen to stand waiting for a picture. |
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Post by A60stock on Nov 10, 2021 22:44:23 GMT
Does this refurb include a repaint of the exterior?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 10, 2021 23:42:06 GMT
Does this refurb include a repaint of the exterior? As mentioned sometime previously in this thread, a team of experts was brought in to examine the existing paintwork and was found to be in good condition, under the grime! A trial polishing of one car proved successful, so i believe that is still the plan for the majority of cars. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Nov 11, 2021 0:24:29 GMT
Does this refurb include a repaint of the exterior? As mentioned sometime previously in this thread, a team of experts was brought in to examine the existing paintwork and was found to be in good condition, under the grime! A trial polishing of one car proved successful, so i believe that is still the plan for the majority of cars. I am surprised the paint has held up so well on most of it nearly 30 years. |
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Post by A60stock on Nov 12, 2021 10:11:33 GMT
Does this refurb include a repaint of the exterior? As mentioned sometime previously in this thread, a team of experts was brought in to examine the existing paintwork and was found to be in good condition, under the grime! A trial polishing of one car proved successful, so i believe that is still the plan for the majority of cars. Was this approach also taken for the 1995/96 stock? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 12, 2021 10:57:59 GMT
Was this approach also taken for the 1995/96 stock? I don’t believe any external work was done on those. |
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Post by A60stock on Nov 12, 2021 13:51:59 GMT
Was this approach also taken for the 1995/96 stock? I don’t believe any external work was done on those. strange, as each train got refurbished, I noticed the exteriors looking very shiny at the time |
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Post by burkitt on Nov 12, 2021 15:21:21 GMT
The 1996 stock received a new exterior vinyl wrap and new paintwork in places when it was refurbished from 2016 onwards.
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Post by cobolot5 on Nov 14, 2021 6:38:31 GMT
Does anybody know how the remotored AC units will behave in ATO? At the moment they maintain speed well without and on and off motion like on the jubilee with AC motors and seltrac. Will we get a jerky motion with AC motors when ATO tries to maintain a target speed? Or is the ATO code written differently to seltrac? At the moment it feels like ATO maintains a constant power demand to maintain speed unlike the on and off motion seltrac seems to produce.
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Post by d7666 on Nov 14, 2021 21:32:55 GMT
Does anybody know how the remotored AC units will behave in ATO? At the moment they maintain speed well without and on and off motion like on the jubilee with AC motors and seltrac. Will we get a jerky motion with AC motors when ATO tries to maintain a target speed? Or is the ATO code written differently to seltrac? At the moment it feels like ATO maintains a constant power demand to maintain speed unlike the on and off motion seltrac seems to produce. That is actually a very good question - but I myself have no idea about a specific answer. However, my basic knowledge of rotating electrical machines, be they series wound DC motors (92TS) or squirrel cage AC motors (S, 95TS 96TS) is the (very fundamental !) differences in how those motor types work is not the reason for the off-on-off-on behaviour. Re-activating long dormant grey cells here since studied this stuff at degree, which was in the last century, but I don't see how it can be the motor type. Traction control circtuitry will be doing what they are commanded to do by the respective control systems, and suspect \ suggest \ delete as applicable it is the Westinghouse Central Line system working in a somewhat different way to Seltrac - there is also no regulation server in the CL kit which /might/ be interfering with steady running contributing to the off-on running in 4LM ? Having said all that, the gubbins controlling the remotored 92TS will be very different - although it will have to present the same interface to the control system. |
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Post by 100andthirty on Nov 14, 2021 22:30:29 GMT
The ac Traction package software can be set to precisely emulate the dc package. I don't actually know whether it will be like this or whether higher performance will be sought. The two key features that avoid jerkiness are a) the rate at which acceleration rate is changed eg from acceleration to coasting, known as the jerk rate, a property of the traction software,and b) the hysteresis built into ATO about which the ATO controller manages constant speed running. This means that the ATO will tell the train to accelerate and when it reaches the speed limit, say, 60km/h, the ATO will tell the train to coast. The acceleration rate will be eased off (known as the jerk rate - like gently removing pressure on the accelerator pedal in a car) and the train will coast. If the speed falls below a lower speed (the lower limit of the hysteresis,for this example, say, 57km/h) the ATO will tell the train to reaccelerate.
I don't know the exact settings but I think that Central line has a larger hysteresis than on the Jubilee and Northern and a smoother feeling jerk rate.
If the acceleration rate is changed, the ATO - a closed loop controller - will compensate for small changes.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 19, 2021 12:44:49 GMT
CLIP 8-car Train 4 successfully made its own way, fitted with tripcocks, from Ruislip depot into Acton Works last night.
W 91109+93026+93206+91093 E
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Post by grumpycat on Nov 20, 2021 2:17:25 GMT
CLIP 8-car Train 4 successfully made its own way, fitted with tripcocks, from Ruislip depot into Acton Works last night. W 91109+93026+93206+91093 E 4 trains have been done now? |
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Post by notverydeep on Nov 20, 2021 8:38:00 GMT
CLIP 8-car Train 4 successfully made its own way, fitted with tripcocks, from Ruislip depot into Acton Works last night. W 91109+93026+93206+91093 E 4 trains have been done now? This one is heading into the works, none are finished and in service yet... |
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Post by coldplayfan18 on Nov 20, 2021 14:27:30 GMT
How long will it be in Acton Works for? I assume this stage will be where all the internal fittings happen, such as the new seats, wheelchair spaces and the PiS boards.
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Post by smiffy on Dec 8, 2021 4:39:57 GMT
Hello, I've been a long time watcher of this thread without ever creating an account, but finally decided to make one. I have a few questions related to the CLIP but I'm not too clued up on how this sort of project cycle goes, this forum has pretty much been my only news source. I use the central line daily and have been waiting to see the refurbishment of the trains for what feels like forever, so I figured rather than wait any longer, I'd just ask the things I can't find an answer to.
1) with regards to the new PIS and train computer... I assume new audio announcements will be recorded for the whole line to replace Emma Clarke, and if so, will there also be a resolution to the problem of audio distortion? I have no clue whether it's down to the fidelity of the audio files, the speakers themselves, or the capability of the software running it all, but the sound quality of the announcements in the 92s is pretty sub-par. Sometimes they sound so muddy it's hard to even make out what is being announced.
2) Moquette. I really miss the pre-2011 red seats. I understand the need to have contrasting colours between seat moquette and grab rails for accessibility, but do we have any news or rumour of a new design, or perhaps even a red-themed modification to the existing barman pattern? The recent-ish moquette change on the bakerloo line feels like the perfect example of how to do it right and make good use of the line's colour, rather than having that same blue colour on every single line. I really hope they don't stick with the blue.
3) This one is a bit oddly specific. Are we expecting standard orange dot matrix information screens in the trains, or more modern LCD displays, like those on the class 345/710?
4) Is there any pictures? Is it normal for details of projects like this to remain unknown by the public for so long? The only thing I could ever find was that one low resolution photo of the prototype wheelchair bay... is that the only public photo of the new interiors out there? Honestly I'd even take a rough description, hurried sketch, whatever. It's been so long, man.
5) General updates - If I'm not mistaken, the first refurbished trains are supposed to be service by the end of the year. Is this target still on time, and is there any new information?
That's about it, thanks for your help and thanks for being such a great source for information on the project, it's nice to finally have an account here.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 8, 2021 6:07:13 GMT
1) no idea as to intended voice etc.
2) nothing has been mentioned about replacement moquette
3) definitely not LCD, single line LED
4) pictures available aren’t for general viewing, hence they are not shown here (there is a Social Media posting policy which restricts Staff)
5) think we have been quite forward with the updates when anything significant happens?
- trial fitment of LED lights, wheelchair bays, PIS displays etc
- progress with workshop building
- movement of units to Derby and Old Dalby
- test running of new DTS fitted units
- movement of units into Acton Works
Unfortunately we can’t hurry the project along any quicker to suit the membership of this Forum
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 8, 2021 12:59:20 GMT
91001 in Acton Works, stripped for welding repairs:  ©TfL 2021 |
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Post by smiffy on Dec 8, 2021 13:33:32 GMT
think we have been quite forward with the updates when anything significant happens? most certainly! apologies if my post came off a little rude, i was aiming for a jokey tone that maybe didn’t translate to typed text very well, but thank you very much for the information you provided, especially the latest image of a stripped train. I assume at this stage it may still be a few weeks or months until the refurbished trains enter service? |
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Post by Chris L on Dec 8, 2021 21:22:19 GMT
91001 in Acton Works, stripped for welding repairs: ©TfL 2021 That's a very skilled repair job. |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 9, 2021 3:30:42 GMT
..... 5) General updates - If I'm not mistaken, the first refurbished trains are supposed to be service by the end of the year. Is this target still on time, and is there any new information? ..... End of financial year? But October 2021 Investment Programme Report shows now expected in late April 2022. "The first train was expected to go into service in March 2022, but the current forecast shows a later delivery by 32 days. The programme has been delayed by a lack of resource and inability to recruit. The team is reviewing the plan to identify delivery dates based on the current available resources and validate the impact to delivery. Though there is a plan to try to recover some of this time, the current forecast shows the first train will be later than planned." |
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Post by cobolot5 on Dec 9, 2021 4:27:39 GMT
91001 in Acton Works, stripped for welding repairs: ©TfL 2021 Great picture thanks! Are these welding works preparation for the wheelchair bays etc? Or are they remedial works to correct faults in the subframe and bodyshell? |
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Post by coldplayfan18 on Dec 9, 2021 9:54:06 GMT
91001 in Acton Works, stripped for welding repairs: ©TfL 2021 Are the other units, that make up a full train alongside this one, being stripped at the same time? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 9, 2021 10:15:33 GMT
Great picture thanks! Are these welding works preparation for the wheelchair bays etc? Or are they remedial works to correct faults in the subframe and bodyshell? Wheelchair space will not be provided in the DM cars. Remedial welding i'm assured. Are the other units, that make up a full train alongside this one, being stripped at the same time? Yes, currently four 8-car trains in Acton undergoing the same treatment. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 9, 2021 11:02:55 GMT
What are the yellow things hanging in the doorways?
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Tom
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Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Dec 9, 2021 11:05:34 GMT
They look like lights.
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Post by bigvern on Dec 9, 2021 11:05:59 GMT
String of lights.
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Post by d7666 on Dec 9, 2021 22:48:12 GMT
I spotted a unit with a new type of inter-car barriers between two cars on an 8 car unit. They were made of rubber. I haven't seen any more units with this mod since a week ago. I had thought all ‘92s were fitted with the rubber sharks-teeth between the cars after the Holland Park incident in August 2013 ? I briefly caught sight of a 92TS recently that I thought looked different in this repsect. It was already on the move by the time I saw this, and, tut tut, omitted to note the car number; in mitigation of that error it was actually at Stratford and I was on the GEML platforms, so was a couple of platforms away anyway. Something did not look right, or, did not look the same. All I can say is when you are used to seeing something routinely but, subconsciously, when it changes, you notice. But I can't tell you what it was. Either the sharks teeth were different, or not there and something else was. Might even have been a fault i.e. something was missing. |
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