Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 23, 2019 9:13:25 GMT
The RMT describe the change as a "tactical" one, but doesn't elaborate further - does anyone know why the new dates are seen as more advantageous to the union's cause?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 24, 2019 9:51:00 GMT
Perhaps linked to shift start times?
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Aug 24, 2019 10:04:56 GMT
May be the leadership of the Union involved are away on a Summer Holday in August 😎😎😎
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Post by sawb on Aug 24, 2019 15:57:38 GMT
Schools are back so people will be back at work too, so more disruption than the original dates, so the RMT possibly believe this strengthens their cause
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Post by drainrat on Aug 25, 2019 9:59:28 GMT
No, I'm sure that's not the case 😉
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Post by drainrat on Aug 25, 2019 10:00:59 GMT
May be the leadership of the Union involved are away on a Summer Holday in August 😎😎😎 Haha, nah, I've got a dentists appointment 🤕 |
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Post by drainrat on Aug 25, 2019 10:09:21 GMT
Not correct, it's the Professional Train Operator Agreement (PTOA) that is agreed by the trade unions (via branch/district processes) and management. It's not the trade unions that don't allow it, and let's not forget, the TUs aren't a separate entity to the drivers who belong to them, they are the Union and the union represents them. As for overtime, goldenarrow is correct. Obviously we've both observed the same thing where there's becoming a reliance on overtime, and often it's refused by the driver so the train goes to the depot/siding, leaving the service 'thinner'. There used to be a time where you'd be told to stable it on the trip before handing over, now they often keep quiet until a couple stations before, in hope you'll accept the overtime, thus, what may've been an Epping service, then becomes a Woodford service at Leytonstone, and passengers quite rightly getting more and more annoyed. Trouble is, as I've pointed out many times in these threads, stereotyping is an important point to understand in this, and the drivers have been stereotyped as public enemy #1 for many years, and so must be to blame, but the reality of it rarely comes to light, because the real villains are seldom shown in a bad light 🙄 I am well aware of the Professional Train Operator Aggreement on LUL. However look at Rest Day Working on Train Operating Companies ( TOC's) on Network Rail, ASLEF the main Trade Union have agreements with TOC's for Train Driivers to work rest days. Not all TOCs have rest day working and those that do, it is controlled by ASLEF. I know of LUL Train Operators who drive Rail Replacement Buses of their days off, with the knowledge of management. Very good, but the point was that it wasn't correct that the TUs don't allow drivers to do overtime. The issue of working on other jobs is a contractual one and not a RD overtime working issue, there are I'm sure, many drivers as well as managers working many other jobs as well as driving replacement buses, photography, gardening, plumbing, doormen etc. etc. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 27, 2019 11:28:01 GMT
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Chris M
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Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
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Post by Chris M on Aug 27, 2019 14:38:55 GMT
What does "refusal to undertake lone working" mean in the context of a train operator?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 27, 2019 18:09:28 GMT
As far as I can make out it means that if there's a drunk asleep on the train another member of staff has to be on board before going into Heathrow T5 sidings. Obviously they'd need authorisation from the controller before they could take passengers over a shunt signal but I certainly wouldn't be happy doing that.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 30, 2019 6:13:32 GMT
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Post by commuter on Aug 31, 2019 14:59:02 GMT
As far as I can make out it means that if there's a drunk asleep on the train another member of staff has to be on board before going into Heathrow T5 sidings. Obviously they'd need authorisation from the controller before they could take passengers over a shunt signal but I certainly wouldn't be happy doing that. That’s strange because there has been a working agreement for quite some time now (it’s even pinnedup in the control room at S-Ken) that states that station staff / train staff will never be asked to go into the Sidings at T5 with an intoxicated / unresponsive passenger on board. (FWIW for those who don’t work in the company - the rule book allows passengers to be carried into sidings where authorised by the service manager, as long as there is an external walkway for T/Ops to change ends. Whilst normally T/Ops will not leave the train to change ends, there is a walkway to allow this). |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 12, 2019 9:16:21 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 10, 2020 18:19:41 GMT
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Post by sawb on Mar 6, 2020 13:58:30 GMT
The Evening Standard is reporting that there is the possibility of strike action and action short of strike action, by members of both unions on London Underground. They are, as seems customary, portraying this exclusively as a pay dispute. I don't buy this for one moment. Is there anyone who is prepared to state whether my suspicions that it's more than "just a pay dispute" are correct and outline the issues that are at the heart of this matter?
already being discussed, threads merged
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Post by stapler on Mar 6, 2020 14:07:39 GMT
What strike where---I don't see the George Osborne special!
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Post by commuter on Mar 10, 2020 8:39:45 GMT
The Evening Standard is reporting that there is the possibility of strike action and action short of strike action, by members of both unions on London Underground. They are, as seems customary, portraying this exclusively as a pay dispute. I don't buy this for one moment. Is there anyone who is prepared to state whether my suspicions that it's more than "just a pay dispute" are correct and outline the issues that are at the heart of this matter? already being discussed, threads mergedIt is a pay dispute, nothing more and nothing less. For “pay”, read “pay and conditions”, as it is common practice to (attempt to) renegotiate terms of service at the same time as negotiating pay. Probably dating back from the time where was lots of money, as historically it was easier to just offer extra cash as part of the normal pay deal, if the company wanted something. Except this time the company doesn’t seem to want anything in return; it’s the T.Us [trade unions ] that want a shorter working week, staff pass parity with colleagues on TfL branded Main Line railways etc. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 10, 2020 11:36:18 GMT
Back at the last pay deal - 2015 I think it was - management agreed to a reduction from 35 hours per week to 34 but nothing ever happened.
To put things in context here's what we get and what other "TfL" drivers get
London Underground
£55011
35 hour 5 day week, Sundays inside the roster, 8 hrs maximum
43 days leave (inc. 6 days for working 1 hour unpaid) extra day after 25 years, extra day after 40 years.
London Overground ex-Silverlink
£62587
34 hour 4 day week, Sundays inside , 9 hrs max,
32 days leave with an extra 2 days after 5 years
London Overground ex-Abellio
£56601
34 hour 4 day week, Sundays outside, 9 hr 15 min max
24 days/6 weeks leave
TfL Rail/MTR Crossrail
£60172
34 hour 4 day week, Sunday inside, 9hr 30 min max.
30 days annual leave – 20 days rostered
We've slipped a bit behind our colleagues in other TOCs. Pay negotiations started in February last year so this isn't something that has sprung up overnight
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 11, 2020 8:15:48 GMT
What TfL have offered:-
Year 1 – 2.7% (RPI Feb 2019 +0.2%)
Year 2 – 1.4% plus 30-minute reduction in working week (three banked rest days)
Year 3 – RPI Feb 2021 +0.2%
Year 4 – 1.4% plus further 30-minute reduction in working week (three further banked rest days);
Or;
A pay increase-only deal of RPI +0.2% each year for four years
Minimum increase of £750 in year one (pro-rata for those working less than 35 hours)
The problem with that is every pay deal in the past has been something along the lines of "RPI plus 0.2% OR 2% (whichever was greater)" but this has no "whichever is greater" just "RPI plus" so if RPI falls below zero we don't get a pay rise.
Also there's no actual reduction to the hours, under option 1 we'd still be working 36 hours a week but getting paid for 34 instead of 35 with 6 more days off to add to the 6 we already get
Other issues are a substantial increase to give us parity with the other TfL drivers, an increase to the Boxing Day payment which hasn't changed since it was introduced in 2012, allowing staff passes to be used on all services accepting Oyster card (not just TfL) and paid meal reliefs all of which management have rejected. And remember this has been going on for over a year!
ASLEF met with management at ACAS yesterday, they amended the offer to a 2% minimum on Year 4 but that still leaves years 2 and 3 without any "underpinning" and none of the other issues addressed. The ASLEF ballot closed yesterday so I guess the result should be announced sometime today.
Fun and games!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 11, 2020 11:30:55 GMT
The ASLEF ballot closed yesterday so I guess the result should be announced sometime today. Fun and games! I believe the ballot closes at 10.00 tomorrow Thursday 12 March. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 11, 2020 12:11:11 GMT
Probably, I've been a bit woozy since my trip to Naples the weekend before last...
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Mar 11, 2020 18:58:23 GMT
Probably, I've been a bit woozy since my trip to Naples the weekend before last... Are you self -isolating ? |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 11, 2020 19:00:46 GMT
Its always isolated in the cab of a 1992...
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Post by MoreToJack on Mar 12, 2020 0:23:04 GMT
RMT are also balloting, for the record. Closes end of the month, with action proposed from mid-April onwards.
TSSA have accepted the 'pay only' deal in both its original and revised form.
Turbulent times ahead.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 12, 2020 13:27:43 GMT
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 12, 2020 18:20:31 GMT
I've been working on the Tube since 1997 and this is the first time we've had a strike over pay.
Not under Ken, not even under Boris. Sadiq Khan is about to get a lesson in union power.
BTW when Sadiq was running for Mayor in 2016 TSSA gave him free office space for his campaign hoping that he'd reverse the ticket office closures. I don't think TSSA will be so supportive this election...
But then he's on 49% according to the latest YouGov poll while Shaun Bailey is on 24%. If the Tories actually thought they had a chance of winning they'd have picked better candidate.
Swings and roundabouts...
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Post by nig on Mar 23, 2020 17:03:39 GMT
RMT Accepts 4 Year Pay Deal and will Return to Issue of Working Hours ASAP
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 23, 2020 17:09:14 GMT
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Post by philthetube on Mar 23, 2020 17:30:17 GMT
I think they will come to feel that is a great decision, hope aslef follow suit.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 24, 2020 16:25:02 GMT
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