Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2005 22:54:50 GMT
There's a bit of a discussion raging at work. We've received an instruction from the powers that be, that we must see out the last train, using the SATS bat and not as I do, by going up to the cab and giving the green direct into the cab (and having a bit of a chat if the drivers door opens)
I was wondering what are the drivers opinion?
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Aug 7, 2005 0:13:13 GMT
I would say getting the Green lamp as it is a clear instruction, unlike a sats bat which does not and has never been a means of giving the right to depart a station. All a sats bat does is indicate to the driver that it is time to close the doors, and that the holder is monitoring the platform/train interface. I would also refer you to the working reference manual which clearly states that a Green flag or hand lamp is the only way to dispatch the last trains. Of course it would also be nice if said signal was always shown directly to the driver as opposed to a Black & White monitor !  |
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Post by q8 on Aug 7, 2005 6:26:17 GMT
Yes I would agree with Colin. A greenlamp (or flag) shown directly to a driver is the ONLY safe way to despatch a last train. Any bloody muggleshuggit can give an ambiguos indication via a monitor or from the far end of a platform late at night given that all sorts of lights and stuff can be openly bought on the market.
Take no notice of these office wallahs and those funnywizzit ideas they come up with from time-to-time. Do things as COMMONSENSE dictates and not as COST decrees.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2005 18:17:39 GMT
I would also refer you to the working reference manual which clearly states that a Green flag or hand lamp is the only way to dispatch the last trains. The said mention in the WRM has indeed made the 'powers that be' scuttle back into their hole, but, so I'm informed, they're simply changing the entry in the next update. |
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Post by banana on Aug 7, 2005 20:29:49 GMT
BTW Why does the last train need to be dispatched differently from every other train ?
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Post by piccadillypilot on Aug 7, 2005 20:32:13 GMT
BTW Why does the last train need to be dispatched differently from every other train ? Because of the need to ensure that passengers needing to connect in to it can do so. The station supervisor is responsible for ensuring that it does not leave before time. |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Aug 7, 2005 21:00:09 GMT
This is of course one of those things which seems to be unique to London; certainly the other system I spent time loitering with intent on doesn't have a similar system, instead relying on the train staff being disciplined enough to make connections (aka Samtrafik). Unfortunately not all drivers are very good in this respect and I have been known to run for a last train connection in case the driver ignores the 'S' mark in the timetable. Great fun when you've had a few in Det Glada Stinsen. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2005 21:51:50 GMT
Sometimes on last train you're grateful for any sign of life at a station, whether with hand lamp, bat or whatever - I've had to go without before as there were no staff. I've also heard of station staff using the station PA to tell the driver of the last train to depart, from the comfort of the control room!
Glad I don't do dead lates anymore...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2005 22:49:53 GMT
You cant mistake a lamp, that gets my vote.  |
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Post by citysig on Aug 8, 2005 9:46:30 GMT
The task is not classed as "safety critical" and as such requires only a clear indication to be made to the train operator. Strictly speaking the only time a green lamp would be required is if prior to this, the train operator was shown a red lamp.
Also keep in mind that in the SPAD reducing age, there have been occasions where the T/Op has taken the green lamp to be not only a "right away" but also as the station starter. Given the time of day, it's quite easy to make that sort of mistake.
Where NR use lamps to despatch trains, this has mostly been changed to using a white lamp.
But I do think that any signal to the last train should be made clearly by the Station Supervisor standing close or next to the leading cab.
Lots of things are changing, and unfortunately sometimes we have no choice but to change with them. I think the real issue here is that, given that some locations already perform the task less than adequately, a change to a possibly less visual method may make matters much worse.
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