Detraining at Waterloo

Well said.

I notice that it's one of those words, like 'firefighter', and 'conductor', that, although used meticulously by the relevant organisations and the media, is generally ignored by the public who still refer to 'passengers', 'firemen', and 'guards'.

At yesterday's branch meeting the motion to issue a statement similar to RMT's received unanimous backing from Leytonstone drivers.

I presume "flash and dash" flashing the saloon lights of and on, closing the doors, checking the platform-train interface is clear and, when it is, departing into the siding?

So presumably the industrial action is the "normal platform duties", ie physically checking the train is empty.

Nah, never, I'd say nearest to mark


In the bumf produced to 'alleviate' our fears, it was claimed a Liverpool st incident (a number of us still remember this) would be avoided by the teeth barriers ('dragons teeth' mean something different to me 😉) as the person was killed by the carriage swing whilst train took the bend, in effect, the shearing effect, which the teeth wouldn't prevent.
Now, the W&C passengers are a smart lot and it wouldn't be long before a few of them saw a 'niche in the market' thus no need to wait on the ramps, this btw happens on a daily basis and not a twice yearly event as the review tried to tell us, telling passengers to pull the PA - Passenger Alarm - would be pointless when it was the intent to go in and out the depot so they already had a seat and didn't have to wait. Now, our handover procedure at Waterloo is by way of a rear cab clear plunger so trains depart quicker, we'd be none the wiser if there was an over carry and so proving the management point that there would be no over carries as no one would see if there were passengers on the train. It's 'ostrich' management, burying heads in sand 🙄


I don't believe it was cutting station staff, evidently it was more a relocation exercise. They have a project on the station and rather than employing more staff for the project, they were just going to move the staff from detrainments to the project 😐

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About the same time at Queen's Park northbound bakerloo line there was a safety notice from the Duty Train Managers (DTMs) which was a bit facetious stating something like 'we sell tickets to our passengers, unfortunately we don't sell them carrots to see better in the dark....do NOT turn your lights off when detaining, anyone caught doing this will be disciplined.


Wasnt the loop a colour light move? 

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It was. B3 route 1.

I seem to remember that a lot of passengers purposely stayed on the train 😉


No, as I pointed out earlier, shearing effect overlooked as train swings, no way of knowing if any one is over carried etc. etc. however, to me as someone who was a part of the initial discussions, colour light was/is very much relevant to the discussion, but my asking was in question to you raising about the loop, so I added about queens pk which lead to asking about colour lights. The reason colour lights is very much relevant to this discussion imo is because of strategy and rollouts to other locations. Now, even though turnarounds on 5rd Waterloo depot procedure is via rear cab clear light, we do have procedure on other roads which requires us to walk through the train and alight at the bank end of the train. A lot of reversing moves for us drain drivers who can be on the Central line on any given day are via colour light, Debden, Woodford 21rd, Newbury pk etc. and at these locations, flash n dash is very much a likelihood and then other issue raised before can ensue.

Detraining on Central line trains never ceased, it certainly did last

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drainrat could you clarify what has been called off? The new procedures? The action short of a strike?

.....so, the public will see the handsome drivers only doing one unit, not the whole train

Seems logical enough.

What's the problem with it?

Are the management asking staff to work a)longer? b) for less money? or c)harder?

The fairly obvious problem is that there could still be passengers on board who will have travelled over a shunt signal into Waterloo sidings. They would then have to be escorted out of the sidings by a member of staff who  was licenced to walk with the untrained - something the majority of TOps aren't licenced to do - or they would have to be taken back out on the train to the Arrivals platform, again over a shunt signal which would require authority from the service controller

And if the passenger is drunk and/or aggressive it creates even further complications

Class 482/1992ts doesn't have CCTV in the saloons although it will be getting it with the refurb. As for comparisons with the DLR the Class 482/1992ts on the W&C are 4-car so of a similar length to the DLR trains but drivers won't be walking through from front to back, the whole procedure will be done from the cab.

On any other line a "carry over" would guarantee you a disciplinary interview with a manager and your union rep so it seems fairly ridiculous that management have decided its perfectly acceptable on the W&C.

Train Ops get some training on dealing with drunks, etc. but generally we are told to avoid any confrontational situation as management don't see us as "customer facing"" and would much rather we drive the trains instead of getting involved in passenger issues.

If management perceive the issue with detrainment is to avoid the driver having contact with T/Op, then as the W&C steps-back in the depot, that's not going to be problem. The main issue really is carrying passengers over non-passenger legal points and track.