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Post by manorborn on Jun 29, 2018 13:23:24 GMT
There is some debate on my local Facebook group about Eastcote Halt, when it was that it became simply "Eastcote" and what the difference is between a halt and a proper station. Can anyone enlighten us?
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Post by superteacher on Jun 29, 2018 13:32:36 GMT
Isn’t a halt unstaffed?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 29, 2018 14:21:47 GMT
I think the distinction between a station and a halt is a little nebulous. Generally I'd suggest stations have buildings whereas the infrastructure available at a halt can be significantly less:  (Fach Goch Halt on the Talyllyn Railway) |
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Post by theblackferret on Jun 29, 2018 15:55:52 GMT
You need to get RW Kidner's (Oakwood Press) Halts Of The Southern Railway. It was copied from the French, hence why it was originally spelt Halte. As to what the difference was between a halt & a station, several stations were never staffed, but were always designated stations, and, naturally, several halts were sometimes staffed, a few permanently staffed, and were always designated halts. There was also confusion between Railway Clearing House's nomenclature about what was a halt and what was not, compared to Bradshaw's timetable's take on the definition-bit like them there mediaeval conferences where all the Archbishops & Cardinals travel the length of Europe to discuss how many angels can dance on a pinhead. As to when Halt became station at Eastcote: EastcoteIf correct, that's 1910. I can't find anything on early Tube Maps(which don't show Uxbridge as it was Met only then & they weren't part of the Underground Group) or in Mike Horne's Capital Transport Series on The Met or Picc to suggest it was still being referred to as a Halt after that date. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jun 29, 2018 16:50:33 GMT
Given the hither to undeveloped land that surrounded the tracks of the Uxbridge branch at the time, halt may reflect the lack of development in the area. Ickenham station came about due to lobbying from Ickenham Parish Council but was a tiny affair unable to take a train of more than three cars which makes the use of "Halte" more appropriate.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 29, 2018 19:36:18 GMT
On the mainline one definition was that a station had goods and/or parcels facilities while a halt did not, but it depends who was doing the defining and when.
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Post by theblackferret on Jun 29, 2018 20:15:43 GMT
On the mainline one definition was that a station had goods and/or parcels facilities while a halt did not, but it depends who was doing the defining and when. A perfect example of which was just over the border from me in Cornwall-that part of the Gunnislake branch sawn off in 1966. Latchley and Chilsworthy stations or halts in particular;the latter was never staffed, yet once had a goods siding solely for loading strawberries and rabbits for London markets. |
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 11, 2018 21:26:07 GMT
Emerson Park has been known as "Halt" at various times in its history, including before LO took it over.
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Post by zbang on Aug 13, 2018 1:14:42 GMT
Sounds a bit like a "flag stop" (train only stops when a flag is displayed or a passenger tells the guard/conductor.) AFAICT, a stopping place is a "halt" because it doesn't handle goods. Or it doesn't have any points associated with it. Or a platform. Or is staffed, (occasionally). Or because it has "halt" in the name, sometimes  . |
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Post by trt on Aug 13, 2018 9:12:55 GMT
Anything to do with inclusion in the fares table? As a guess.
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 13, 2018 10:50:58 GMT
Sounds a bit like a "flag stop" (train only stops when a flag is displayed or a passenger tells the guard/conductor.) AFAICT, a stopping place is a "halt" because it doesn't handle goods. Or it doesn't have any points associated with it. Or a platform. Or is staffed, (occasionally). Or because it has "halt" in the name, sometimes . That's a "request stop"; the nearest one of those to London is Berney Arms on Greater Anglia. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Aug 13, 2018 11:49:35 GMT
It seems fairly clear from the above that there is no 'official' meaning attached to the word halt - certainly not now.
Perhaps different companies had different definitions in the past, but stations have changed in the interim so it's virtually impossible to back-form the logic involved.
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Post by littlejohn on Aug 13, 2018 12:08:28 GMT
According to 'The Spread of London's Underground' (Capital Transport, 2004) Ickenham Halte was opened on 25 Sept 1905. Eastcote Halt (why the change of spelling?) was opened on 26 May 1906. The date of dropping of Halt/e in either case is not recorded but the map of the Underground System on 31 December 1910 shows Ickenham without the suffix but Eastcote still with it.
Mr Wiki is similarly silent on when the Halt/e was dropped but regarding Ickenham, it says: 'The parish council later requested shelters for passengers on the platforms, which were built in December 1905'. So it seems that Ickenham PC didn't lobby for the Halte itself, just for the basic facilities. The platforms weren't extended until 1922.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 13, 2018 12:47:32 GMT
That's a "request stop"; the nearest one of those to London is Berney Arms on Greater Anglia. I can think of half a dozen request stops closer to London than Berney Arms is. The closest to London I know of is Bures (in Essex, on the Sudbury branch). |
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 13, 2018 15:10:37 GMT
I stand corrected.
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Post by jamesb on Aug 13, 2018 20:59:09 GMT
Roding Valley used to be Roding Valley Halt according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roding_Valley_tube_station). If a halt is unstaffed, based on my recent experiences maybe Roding Valley should be restored to its original name  |
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Post by patrickb on Aug 14, 2018 2:32:57 GMT
Roding Valley used to be Roding Valley Halt according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roding_Valley_tube_station). If a halt is unstaffed, based on my recent experiences maybe Roding Valley should be restored to its original name Being my local tube station, I've found that in almost all cases, there's always member of staff. They'll be in the office if they're not making routine checks or standing on the outer circle platforms as trains arrive and depart. My understanding is that stations that were distinguished as halts were built with less permanent features and limited facilities. Roding Valley Halt was merely two platforms with a shelter on either side. It had far less to show for itself compared to neighbouring stations Woodford and Chigwell. |
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Post by jamesb on Aug 14, 2018 10:51:48 GMT
Roding Valley used to be Roding Valley Halt according to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roding_Valley_tube_station). If a halt is unstaffed, based on my recent experiences maybe Roding Valley should be restored to its original name Being my local tube station, I've found that in almost all cases, there's always member of staff. They'll be in the office if their not making routine checks or standing on the outer circle platforms as trains arrive and depart. My understanding is that stations that were distinguished as halts were built with less permanent features and limited facilities. Roding Valley Halt was merely two platforms with a shelter on either side. It had far less to show for itself compared to neighbouring stations Woodford and Chigwell. Was this Roding Valley as it was when it was Roding Valley Halt? (https://picclick.co.uk/Roding-Valley-Railway-Station-Photo-Woodford-Chigwell-251570129267.html) (re: staffing at Roding Valley, there is a separate discussion in districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/29894/unmanned-stations) |
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Post by patrickb on Aug 14, 2018 19:05:11 GMT
Yes, as it was back in LNER days, you will find more photographs on the LTM Website. Copyright:LTM  'Halt' was dropped from the name when LT commenced operation of services on the loop and both platforms were rebuilt. |
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