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Post by programmes1 on May 24, 2018 6:31:42 GMT
I have done a search but can't find anything so sorry if there is. Does anyone know what will happen when the new signalling gets commissioned at the north end of the Met.
Currently the alterations are switched in by the signalman turning a switch in the cabin? can anyone confirm. With the new signalling will it be automatic or something else.
TIA
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Post by bigvern on May 24, 2018 6:54:39 GMT
As regards leaf fall and new signalling, the current Jubilee Line has sensors out on the Stanmore Branch which pick up on poor rail conditions (slipery and wet rails) and the signalling system can be set by the controller when a poor rail condition is detected even outside of leaf fall, which then restricts maximum speed (Target speed) and also slow down acceleration/braking rate of trains this being done by communication with the trains VOBC.(Vehicle on board computer) and can be applied to any signalling sections as required.
As this is a Thales system being installed it is likely to be replicated on all open sections of the sub surface lines
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londoner
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Post by londoner on May 24, 2018 21:09:34 GMT
As regards leaf fall and new signalling, the current Jubilee Line has sensors out on the Stanmore Branch which pick up on poor rail conditions (slipery and wet rails) and the signalling system can be set by the controller when a poor rail condition is detected even outside of leaf fall, which then restricts maximum speed (Target speed) and also slow down acceleration/braking rate of trains this being done by communication with the trains VOBC.(Vehicle on board computer) and can be applied to any signalling sections as required. As this is a Thales system being installed it is likely to be replicated on all open sections of the sub surface lines How will the new signalling influence the Chiltern services? Will their trains require software modification? |
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Deleted
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Leaf fall
May 25, 2018 5:39:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 5:39:03 GMT
No there will still be lineside signals and train stops on the fast roads north of Harrow On The Hill and the new CBTC signalling will be overlaid over the top so both can run happily together
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Post by howda62 on May 25, 2018 7:45:12 GMT
The north end of the Met has some flippable speed limit signs which I think are flipped from 60 to 50 during leaf fall. Presumably this manual change will still have to happen for the Chiltern services? If so, if the new CBTC signalling can sense if poor rail conditions apply, there could be a scenario on good days in autumn when S stock could be unrestricted but Chiltern services would still be restricted by the lineside speed signs?
Given there is a leaf fall timetable which allows 3 minutes extra running time (assuming that must still exist in the future), any "good day" faster running though would only assist when Met trains are running late to help them catch up to schedule. And such capability may not be available to Chiltern trains.
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Post by programmes1 on May 28, 2018 6:18:47 GMT
As regards leaf fall and new signalling, the current Jubilee Line has sensors out on the Stanmore Branch which pick up on poor rail conditions (slipery and wet rails) and the signalling system can be set by the controller when a poor rail condition is detected even outside of leaf fall, which then restricts maximum speed (Target speed) and also slow down acceleration/braking rate of trains this being done by communication with the trains VOBC.(Vehicle on board computer) and can be applied to any signalling sections as required. As this is a Thales system being installed it is likely to be replicated on all open sections of the sub surface lines Thanks for that I was not aware that it was built into the system. I think going by what you have said that they won't invent the wheel again. Now to find out if anyone knows how the current system is switched in/out. |
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May 28, 2018 9:25:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 9:25:55 GMT
It’s literally a switch I believe at Rickmansworth and Amersham cabins
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Post by programmes1 on May 28, 2018 14:36:09 GMT
It’s literally a switch I believe at Rickmansworth and Amersham cabins Thanks |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 28, 2018 15:19:41 GMT
It’s literally a switch I believe at Rickmansworth and Amersham cabins One for each direction, or do they both need to be in agreement for the system to function? |
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May 28, 2018 16:30:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2018 16:30:40 GMT
Pass it’s only things I have stumbled across over the years never worked on the Met
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Post by goldenarrow on May 28, 2018 22:34:18 GMT
It’s literally a switch I believe at Rickmansworth and Amersham cabins One for each direction, or do they both need to be in agreement for the system to function? Pass it’s only things I have stumbled across over the years never worked on the Met I think one switch controls both directions regarding areas under the control of each respective cabin. I vaguely remember Rickmansworth having a turning dial type switch (whatever it did I inadvertently broke it when I was up there a few years back). Amersham has flick switch which reads 'Chalfont and Amersham' it's identical to switches found for auto working on push button panels. Will try to source photos of them so the space below may become populated... |
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Post by programmes1 on May 29, 2018 18:28:24 GMT
One for each direction, or do they both need to be in agreement for the system to function? Pass it’s only things I have stumbled across over the years never worked on the Met I think one switch controls both directions regarding areas under the control of each respective cabin. I vaguely remember Rickmansworth having a turning dial type switch (whatever it did I inadvertently broke it when I was up there a few years back). Amersham has flick switch which reads 'Chalfont and Amersham' it's identical to switches found for auto working on push button panels. Will try to source photos of them so this space may become populated... Now that would be great if you could source some photos. |
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Post by goldenarrow on May 29, 2018 19:36:36 GMT
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Post by programmes1 on May 30, 2018 18:43:24 GMT
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Post by philthetube on Jun 1, 2018 8:36:41 GMT
It’s literally a switch I believe at Rickmansworth and Amersham cabins One for each direction, or do they both need to be in agreement for the system to function? There are no speed restrictions or anything which affects drivers on the north, I am not sure if there is sequential signalling in operation though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 13:50:15 GMT
No sequential signalling north of Harrow only when it’s switched it it hands another track circuit to the limit of control to the signals affected
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Post by philthetube on Jun 2, 2018 6:55:03 GMT
The north end of the Met has some flippable speed limit signs which I think are flipped from 60 to 50 during leaf fall. Presumably this manual change will still have to happen for the Chiltern services? If so, if the new CBTC signalling can sense if poor rail conditions apply, there could be a scenario on good days in autumn when S stock could be unrestricted but Chiltern services would still be restricted by the lineside speed signs? Given there is a leaf fall timetable which allows 3 minutes extra running time (assuming that must still exist in the future), any "good day" faster running though would only assist when Met trains are running late to help them catch up to schedule. And such capability may not be available to Chiltern trains. The limits are actually reduced from 60 to 40. It is probably more likely that away from the leaf fall period Chiltern trains will be running faster then Met ones, tracks can get slippery at any time of the year, in fact the worst I ever experienced were one February. |
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Post by howda62 on Jun 2, 2018 7:31:04 GMT
The limits are actually reduced from 60 to 40. It is probably more likely that away from the leaf fall period Chiltern trains will be running faster then Met ones, tracks can get slippery at any time of the year, in fact the worst I ever experienced were one February. Thanks for the correction. You may well be right, I guess we'll have to see how the CBTC setup on the S8's will handle slippery conditions. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Jun 2, 2018 10:31:16 GMT
All of the talk from Thales suggests that the S stock exceeded the expectations of their technicians in that it proved to be much more responsive/actionable than the software had initially accounted for.
The given the higher speed/longer headways at that end of the MET, transponder tags will obviously be at a greater distance (I think as much as 250m apart).
The VOBC (Vehicle On Board Computer) is only as good as the data/commands it receives, but (this next bit is vague terms) rail adhesion detection was talked of as being something that the train could detect and that in turn could be acted upon by Hammersmith SCC if multiple trains started slipping. I never found out wether this has been carried through or was just a concept.
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