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Post by silenthunter on May 23, 2018 22:09:56 GMT
You'd have thought, with the Elizabeth Line opening about seven months away, TfL Rail could have at least updated the platform signs on the route, like they did with the LST-Shenfield section. They've done posters, but there are still station name signs clearly going back to the NSE era and before. They're in poor nick as well.
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Post by snoggle on May 23, 2018 23:40:37 GMT
You'd have thought, with the Elizabeth Line opening about seven months away, TfL Rail could have at least updated the platform signs on the route, like they did with the LST-Shenfield section. They've done posters, but there are still station name signs clearly going back to the NSE era and before. They're in poor nick as well. Here's my guess as to why they haven't bothered. Most of the stations out west are going to be knocked down and rebuilt. When finished they will have a finalised wayfinding and signage scheme which is what TfL will want to spend their scarce cash on. These schemes will reflect the Lizzie Line branding so spending money on TfL Rail branding is probably considered unnecessary for just 6 months duration. I suspect financial pressures have stopped even very small scale signing schemes except where they are needed for legal reasons. The days of "orange and black Overground overstickers" largesse have long gone. The only thing worth keeping an eye on is the extent to which Lizzie line branding is applied out west given the brand applies from Dec 2018. I suspect it will be pretty modest at most places subject to rebuilding with more of an effort at Heathrow and at Paddington as the former is a "gateway" (and not being rebuilt) and the latter will be a crucial interchange point between separate Crossrail services. I would expect much more of a branding effort out east because stations are being rebuilt there so adding the final purple flourishes and new roundels etc will be relatively simple. Works will complete at many locations in the next few months with only Ilford and Romford continuing. Ilford has yet to start as the work has not been awarded to a contractor yet.
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Post by goldenarrow on May 24, 2018 14:54:23 GMT
You'd have thought, with the Elizabeth Line opening about seven months away, TfL Rail could have at least updated the platform signs on the route, like they did with the LST-Shenfield section. They've done posters, but there are still station name signs clearly going back to the NSE era and before. They're in poor nick as well. www.londonreconnections.com/2018/crossrail-western-progress/A superb article from London Reconnections as always providing insightful detail into the mass of circumstances that have lead to the present situation
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Post by A60stock on May 25, 2018 16:47:47 GMT
apologies if this has been answered elsewhere but is there any reason as to why Hanwell seems to be the only station skipped out by the class 345 trains? I cannot seem to think of any reason asides from low usage or demand? But that would fit in with the tfl logic of trains calling at all stations. Just find it a little odd its the only one that doesnt get this service
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 25, 2018 17:03:33 GMT
For the same reason that Acton Main Line is not served by the Hayes terminators. There are pathing problems which means that there is not enough time to call at all stations, without delaying other trains on the Relief line, so alternate trains omit Acton and Hanwell respectively
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
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Post by Ben on May 25, 2018 23:38:37 GMT
The 'All trains, all stations' principal across TfL's empire is starting to become difficult to implement on some new lines.
If I remember rightly, quite a few years (decades) ago now, there was some talk about the feasibility of a 5th or 6th track along the GWML for at least a few stations. No doubt this hasn't been in anyones ideas for along time now, but perhaps in the distant future, if custom proves to be insatiable, it might crop up again.
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Post by snoggle on May 25, 2018 23:53:26 GMT
The 'All trains, all stations' principal across TfL's empire is starting to become difficult to implement on some new lines. If I remember rightly, quite a few years (decades) ago now, there was some talk about the feasibility of a 5th or 6th track along the GWML for at least a few stations. No doubt this hasn't been in anyones ideas for along time now, but perhaps in the distant future, if custom proves to be insatiable, it might crop up again. To be fair the current service pattern is inherited and the timetable has little flex in it without incurring very long turnround times. There will be no major recast until Dec 2019 when the western section is joined to the Crossrail core. When there are more trains of a common design with better performance as well as far longer trip times that should be properly set and resourced then I expect the service patterns to be better than now. There is also the not insignificant issue of what passengers want if they currently enjoy fast or semi fast services - guess what? they like to keep them. Some will be disappointed come Dec 2019 but more people should have at least a turn up and go service. I think some routes will remain constrained unless and until we start installing ATO and have rolling stock with auto cab start up plus driver stepping back. You aren't going to build another two tracks on viaducts from Edmonton Green to Liverpool St through Tottenham and Hackney! [1] The only way to run more trains is to run trains closer together and to get platform reoccupation times down - not easy at NR terminals but the Japanese have plenty of lessons for us on that. We should certainly be doing that on other NR routes. [1] and yes I know the alternative is Crossrail 2 with tunnels but indulge me for a moment!
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
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Post by Ben on May 26, 2018 0:08:48 GMT
I should hope the service patterns end up better than now - the associated bus cuts and changes make an awfully big assumption about how much people will wish to use Crossrail in preference!
But yes indeed, as long as there conflicting requirements and finite infrastructure there will have to be a timetable that compromises. It'll be interesting to see how much of London's suburban railway network gets equipped with ATO over the years to come.
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Post by waysider on May 26, 2018 9:48:03 GMT
Snoogle... I think some routes will remain constrained unless and until we start installing ATO and have rolling stock with auto cab start up plus driver stepping back. You aren't going to build another two tracks on viaducts from Edmonton Green to Liverpool St through Tottenham and Hackney! [1] The only way to run more trains is to run trains closer together and to get platform reoccupation times down - not easy at NR terminals but the Japanese have plenty of lessons for us on that. We should certainly be doing that on other NR routes
What lessons from the Japanese?
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on May 26, 2018 10:30:47 GMT
To be honest, a lot of tube stations need a thorough clean, its not just this route. I know of one station where there are dead flies lying on the bottom of the window and its been like that for a long time .
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Post by snoggle on May 26, 2018 12:09:54 GMT
Snoogle... I think some routes will remain constrained unless and until we start installing ATO and have rolling stock with auto cab start up plus driver stepping back. You aren't going to build another two tracks on viaducts from Edmonton Green to Liverpool St through Tottenham and Hackney! [1] The only way to run more trains is to run trains closer together and to get platform reoccupation times down - not easy at NR terminals but the Japanese have plenty of lessons for us on that. We should certainly be doing that on other NR routesWhat lessons from the Japanese? I'll be brief as we risk veering off topic. Some of the features will apply on Crossrail so not entirely off topic. - multiple levels of redundancy in rolling stock and signalling & control systems. Reduces risk of service affecting failures. - high capacity stock with lots of doors. Common stock on lines to avoid variance about waiting positions. - "regimented" boarding and alighting procedures (not talking here about about white handed shovers in the peaks) - common length of trains (and often very long) - ATO and ATP - automatic changing of cab ends - high turnround throughput at terminal stations. - high standards of time keeping and supporting staff practices (has had its problems in the past though where corporate culture has become distorted). One thing the Japanese do have which we don't is the mixed suburban rail / subway interworking which allows for a multiplicity of through working and reduces need for central area terminal platforms but there are still a decent number of such stations (often private railways). Note I'm not saying the above leads to perfection - there are delays on Japanese railways. They do, though, shift enormous numbers of people every day. Probably best to leave things here or else we'll be well off topic.
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Post by banana99 on May 26, 2018 12:35:06 GMT
apologies if this has been answered elsewhere but is there any reason as to why Hanwell seems to be the only station skipped out by the class 345 trains? I cannot seem to think of any reason asides from low usage or demand? But that would fit in with the tfl logic of trains calling at all stations. Just find it a little odd its the only one that doesnt get this service Allegedly it is a sighting problem from the Driver's cab. I believe I read it is insufficient lighting. There was talk of the H&H service stopping during daylight hours but it hasn't happened yet. I suspect Hanwell is a case of "build it and they will come" i.e. all it needs is a decent service otherwise it's far easier and more reliable to get one of the many bus routes to Ealing Broadway for 12 services a millisecond service to Paddington.
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Post by banana99 on May 26, 2018 12:37:06 GMT
For the same reason that Acton Main Line is not served by the Hayes terminators. There are pathing problems which means that there is not enough time to call at all stations, without delaying other trains on the Relief line, so alternate trains omit Acton and Hanwell respectively I suspect that the 345 could stop at Hanwell for Afternoon Tea and nothing would catch it before H&H
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