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Post by linus on Apr 28, 2018 13:44:44 GMT
The new Overground timetable is visible on NR tracker and Real Time Trains. Shows 8 trains an hour off-peak and weekends on the NLL, 4 each to Clapham Junction and Richmond (as reported in Modern Railways). Surprisingly also 5 LO tph on the WLL in extended peaks, one per hour turning at Willesden Junction. This makes for uneven headways and destinations on the NLL, with an ugly 12 or even 13 minute gap per hour in between otherwise more or less a 6-minute headway service, evidently prepared for future 10 tph when the new trains are delivered.
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Post by scheduler on Apr 30, 2018 22:41:59 GMT
I suspect interworking with the District line presented a few problems.
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Post by greatkingrat on May 1, 2018 11:35:10 GMT
Also a few random South Acton terminators
1315 Stratford - South Acton 1406
1345 Stratford - South Acton 1436
1445 Stratford - South Acton 1533
This creates some long gaps from Richmond in the afternoon of 24/25 minutes.
1356 1421 1445 1509 1520 1545 1609
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Post by superteacher on May 1, 2018 15:30:32 GMT
Also a few random South Acton terminators 1315 Stratford - South Acton 1406 1345 Stratford - South Acton 1436 1445 Stratford - South Acton 1533 This creates some long gaps from Richmond in the afternoon of 24/25 minutes. 1356 1421 1445 1509 1520 1545 1609 How odd. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 1, 2018 11:43:05 GMT
I am seeing reports that the extra peak workings on the GOBLIN, incl the special AM working to Willesden Junction, have ceased with immediate effect. Apparently the "spare" class 172 that is used for these workings has been taken off lease. The peak workings are not showing in next week's timetable loaded to NR's systems - certainly not showing on Opentraintimes for tomorrow.
I think a lot of people are going to be very inconvenienced by these changes. On a personal note I've never done the AM Willesden Junction working and now probably never will (this assumes there is not an almightly fall out from this sudden change).
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jul 1, 2018 12:01:28 GMT
We've got some Pacers knocking about up here that will be spare soon if you'd like one?
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Post by snoggle on Jul 1, 2018 12:37:22 GMT
We've got some Pacers knocking about up here that will be spare soon if you'd like one? The irony is that Pacers, for all their faults, have quite a lot of seats inside so would probably work *if* they could run at acceptable speeds on the route with a heavy load inside. It won't happen obviously but the delay with the 710s is now getting into "silly" territory if people are not able to board peak hour trains because stock is going off lease. If something doesn't happen very quickly then we face a really serious issue come Autumn when all the 172s are due to go to WM Trains. I can't see TfL tolerating a situation where we end up with replacement buses again because the old trains have left and the new ones aren't ready. I also assume *someone* is also paying for all that electrical infrastructure which is now energised but not actually being used to power trains. As if we haven't already been close to the realms of farce with the electrification works we are very close again with the possible rolling stock situation. |
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Post by jukes on Jul 1, 2018 13:35:01 GMT
If one of the 172s has gone off lease thats entirely predictable as West Midlands trains needs a unit for driver training and for route familiarisation and also to get the branding and refurbishment worked out well in advance of the transfer of the other 7 ready for the 9 December timetable change. Those remaining 7 need to be up in the West Midlands by early November at the very latest, i.e., 5 weeks before timetable change. I suspect that the 710s will receive final NR sign-off during the summer. TfL are pressing for a unit ASAP so they can start practical driver and route training over and above the simulator they already have at Willesden TMD.
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Post by toby on Jul 1, 2018 20:06:51 GMT
I also assume *someone* is also paying for all that electrical infrastructure which is now energised but not actually being used to power trains. As if we haven't already been close to the realms of farce with the electrification works we are very close again with the possible rolling stock situation. Is there a cost to the infrastructure being live and unused, a known amount of juice lost to the air with a cost at the rates they pay? |
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Post by superteacher on Jul 1, 2018 21:35:45 GMT
Electricity doesn’t flow unless the circuit is completed!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 23:31:45 GMT
WM trains would not need the 172 for Driver/Guard traction training as they already have both class 170 and 172
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Post by snoggle on Jul 2, 2018 17:23:12 GMT
I also assume *someone* is also paying for all that electrical infrastructure which is now energised but not actually being used to power trains. As if we haven't already been close to the realms of farce with the electrification works we are very close again with the possible rolling stock situation. Is there a cost to the infrastructure being live and unused, a known amount of juice lost to the air with a cost at the rates they pay? Well I assume someone is having to maintain the infrastructure plus checking that is "working" as it should - especially in respect of such hot weather. I'd hope someone is looking to see that the tensioning etc is as expected and there are no unexpected "sags" in the wiring. Clearly I made an error that there would be some level of consumption of the juice  . Physics was never my favourite subject. (puts dunces cap on and stands in the corner). |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 2, 2018 17:28:31 GMT
On the subject of new "LO timetables" a new bus consultation for buses in Chiswick has emerged this afternoon. It proposes rerouting the 440 away from Bollo Lane level crossings. Part of the justification cited is the "new train every 12 minutes timetable which will be introduced on 9 December 2018". Looks like TfL will be pushing for their 6 min NLL headway on Stratford - Willesden Junction from then. I assume, though, this must require a decent number of 378s to be relinquished from the Watford Line to provide the extra stock. Another pressure to get the 710s into service ASAP.
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Post by jukes on Jul 2, 2018 20:58:06 GMT
Sounds more like a shuffle. The 378s from DC are supposed to end up on the ELL with a couple more from NLL. Thats why 6 5-car 710/3s have just been ordered for delivery in 2019 as well as an additional 710/1 for increasing DC to 4tph plus 2 additional 710/1s for GOB Barking Riverside extension. In order to maximise the cascade to ELL they are retaining a 315 exclusively for Upminster-Romford service. However, the original TfL paper and subsequent comments have rather confused things so I will re-read everything!
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metman
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Post by metman on Jul 4, 2018 20:41:31 GMT
I suppose it is too much to ask for an off lease GE 315 being used on the goblin (excepting driver training etc)?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 5, 2018 1:34:03 GMT
Using a 315/317 on the Goblin was discussed here a couple of times, and iirc even the subject of a mayoral question. To make it economically practical to route clear the trains, train the drivers and depot staff there would need to be long term use of the trains on the line. I don't recall how long long term needs to be, but the originally planned interval of several months between the end of the electrification works and the introduction of the Class 710s wasn't even borderline. With the extensive delays the infrastructure works the gap between wires and electric traction is shorter - even with rolling stock delays.
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Post by A60stock on Jul 5, 2018 10:45:16 GMT
A class 315 is being retained for the rom-upminst. line? Is this going to be permanent or will a 710 eventually be used on the line?
Also some of the above posts suggest the DC line will use 5 car 710s? I thought these would be 4 car, so apologies if ive missed something
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Post by jukes on Jul 5, 2018 15:36:51 GMT
A class 315 is being retained for the rom-upminst. line? Is this going to be permanent or will a 710 eventually be used on the line? Also some of the above posts suggest the DC line will use 5 car 710s? I thought these would be 4 car, so apologies if ive missed something The 315 on Rom-Up will be medium term - at least 5 years, probably longer. The DC units will be 4-car. The only 5-car 710s (the 710/3s) will be for the NLL. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 5, 2018 20:00:16 GMT
Using a 315/317 on the Goblin was discussed here a couple of times, and iirc even the subject of a mayoral question. To make it economically practical to route clear the trains, train the drivers and depot staff there would need to be long term use of the trains on the line. I don't recall how long long term needs to be, but the originally planned interval of several months between the end of the electrification works and the introduction of the Class 710s wasn't even borderline. With the extensive delays the infrastructure works the gap between wires and electric traction is shorter - even with rolling stock delays. Having seen recent remarks elsewhere when this came up again the other big issue is platform dispatch. 315s don't have body mounted cameras so TfL would need to install mirrors / monitors / cameras at every GOBLIN platform. That would take many months and be extremely involved for next to zero benefit. Even if you had platform dispatch staff there would be no fall back in place if a member of staff was, for whatever reason, not available. When you add this lot to the well rehearsed issues over whether 315s even fit the GOBLIN infrastructure, driver training, 315s not being maintained at Willesden etc etc it's a complete non runner. We just have to hope the 710s get into service over the next 4 months or else no GOBLIN service. |
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. Physics was never my favourite subject. (puts dunces cap on and stands in the corner).
