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Post by greggygreggygreg on Apr 22, 2018 19:20:32 GMT
Why does TfL make such a fuss about tapping in and out correctly, but leave barriers open at Green Park Station due to overcrowding, but with people unable to touch out? All they are doing is causing congestion at the ticket barriers while passengers argue with gateline staff about being unable to touch out, and then being overcharged with staff just advising passengers to ring up their banks to tell them to cancel the transaction if using contactless, and those using Oystercards having to deal with the help desk at a later date?
Surely if barriers have to be opened, they should still enable people to touch out?
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londoner
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Post by londoner on Apr 22, 2018 19:34:42 GMT
What you describe is atypical in my experience. If barriers are left open, you should still be able to touch out. Perhaps there was a systems failure.
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Post by will on Apr 22, 2018 19:59:41 GMT
Normally when this happens like at OXO most of time you can still touch out on the readers the barriers are just locked open. Maybe it was an emergency as otherwise there is a constant announcement on a loop telling passengers to ensure they touch out to be charged the correct fare.
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Apr 22, 2018 20:08:49 GMT
I've checked my journey history, and the fare charged earlier in the day from Victoria to Bermondsey was 80p instead of 60p (Priv discount), so something's not right. Perhaps I should wait until all the uploads are done for a proper journey history
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 22, 2018 20:20:15 GMT
Yes, wait until the end of the day. Generally when gates are left open it is for good reason, and auto-complete will be put in place. This should mop up the majority of users who weren't able to touch out. Don't argue with staff - they won't have made the decision to open the gates and are only doing their job.
Opening gates reduces congestion and allows a station to remain open. As I have mentioned, this removes the need for all users to touch, although generally the readers will remain operational if you wish to do so. Without opening gates the congestion will quickly step back to the escalators and platforms, creating a very dangerous situation and requiring the evacuation and closure of the station.
Essentially that's your choice: so don't moan if you have to spend 20 minutes getting it adjusted, when it could be a much longer detour. 🤷🏼♂️
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 23, 2018 5:41:32 GMT
Okay its been 15 years since I last worked on stations but back then staff opened up a gateline either from the Station Control Unit (SCU) by the gateline or from the control room, either way the readers would still be working and you can still touch out. The only way the readers wouldn't be working is if staff had actually switched off each of the gates one at a time or there had been a power failure
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Apr 23, 2018 18:07:13 GMT
I had already detoured as Westminster was shut. And not having the Oyster readers working causes congestion while passengers remonstrate with staff after everyone tries several times to touch out. I can't see an issue with moaning about it, as this sort of thing shouldn't happen. Now I've had to email the Oyster help desk and it'll be a hassle to get my 80p back!
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cso
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Post by cso on Apr 23, 2018 18:51:12 GMT
You could just let it go for 20p, of course...
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Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 23, 2018 18:53:56 GMT
I had already detoured as Westminster was shut. And not having the Oyster readers working causes congestion while passengers remonstrate with staff after everyone tries several times to touch out. I can't see an issue with moaning about it, as this sort of thing shouldn't happen. Now I've had to email the Oyster help desk and it'll be a hassle to get my 80p back! To repeat, when the gates are set to "open" by the control room or on the SCU the readers will still be working and you can still swipe out.
If the readers are off then either there has been a power failure or someone has had to switch them off one at a time which under normal circumstances is unnecessary. They only switch the gates off if they have no alternative
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Apr 23, 2018 19:19:38 GMT
To repeat, the gates were definitely not working. Everyone was being directed to just walk through the open gates, unable to swipe out. I'm not letting it go for 80p. What about all the others who will be several pounds out of pocket?
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Post by SunSeeker on Apr 23, 2018 19:26:24 GMT
To repeat, the gates were definitely not working. Everyone was being directed to just walk through the open gates, unable to swipe out. I'm not letting it go for 80p. What about all the others who will be several pounds out of pocket? Just checked the GP logbook and it looks like all the SCU's/gates were offline yesterday. It was nothing to do with overcrowding but a technical fault. Not sure what you moaning about as these things can happen once in a while, wasn't done on purpose!
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 23, 2018 19:26:45 GMT
To repeat, the gates were definitely not working. Everyone was being directed to just walk through the open gates, unable to swipe out. I'm not letting it go for 80p. What about all the others who will be several pounds out of pocket? "Unable to swipe out" did you notice if the reader was powered up, if it is you can still touch out even if the gates are open.
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Apr 23, 2018 20:08:48 GMT
Yes, they were powered up, but red Xs on all of them. And why am I not entitled to moan? The system wasn't working as it should! I don't suppose Underground staff never moan about anything, do they?
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Post by londonstuff on Apr 23, 2018 21:02:07 GMT
Yes, they were powered up, but red Xs on all of them. And why am I not entitled to moan? The system wasn't working as it should! I don't suppose Underground staff never moan about anything, do they? If you absolutely want your money back you already know the answer - submit a refund claim online though some might think what you’ve gained on your priv card might outweigh the four fifths of a pound. greggygreggygreg - I’m quite happy to leave this thread open if we’re talking about refunds in general or procedures but there seems little point in discussing in ever decreasing circles what happened to you. Any more of this and you’ll end up on the Daily Mail front page soon with your sad face on.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Apr 23, 2018 21:06:23 GMT
As a point of order, everybody is entitled to moan and everyone else is entitled to moan about them moaning, Underground staff or otherwise, even if it's only abot 80 pence. However, should this moaning develop barbs it'll become a distinct irritation for the Mods, and then we'll be double-moaning about all of it, believe me........
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Post by superteacher on Apr 23, 2018 21:22:08 GMT
There is also a fine line between moaning and whinging!
I’ve only ever seen a situation whereby it isn’t possible to touch out occur once in 10 or more years.
If you have an incomplete journey, it is possible (if you are registered online) to select the station where you tried to touch out at. I did this a few weeks ago where I thought I’d touched out but clearly the reader didn’t pick up my card - it was resolved correctly, with a refund. However, you can only do it a maximum of three times in a calendar month.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 23, 2018 23:08:51 GMT
The system is also clever enough to automatically resolve some incomplete journeys. I was changing trains (DLR to Southeastern) at Lewisham, in a hurry to get somewhere (Peckham Rye I think) and forgot to touch out at Lewisham DLR on the way there, I had Island Gardens - ? and Lewisham NR to Peckham Rye journeys, but doing Lewisham correctly on the way back I had just a single Peckham Rye to Island Gardens journey. I logged on to the Oyster website the following day to resolve it, but found that I had been automatically refunded.
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Apr 24, 2018 10:49:15 GMT
Its four-fifths of a pound I'm out of pocket (80p). What's the point of having a discount if the system doesn't allow me to use it? I asked the Oyster help desk to refund me to my bank account, but said to use my Oyster within the next 4 days! There's no wonder we advise people to buy paper tickets when these things cause so much hassle!
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Post by superteacher on Apr 24, 2018 11:14:50 GMT
Its four-fifths of a pound I'm out of pocket (80p). What's the point of having a discount if the system doesn't allow me to use it? I asked the Oyster help desk to refund me to my bank account, but said to use my Oyster within the next 4 days! There's no wonder we advise people to buy paper tickets when these things cause so much hassle! The system does allow you to use your discount. It’s just that on this occasion, the system went wrong. You have also been advised on how you can get your 80p back. There’s not much point in going on about it much more unless you want the thread relegated to the rant area.
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 24, 2018 15:36:05 GMT
Its four-fifths of a pound I'm out of pocket (80p). What's the point of having a discount if the system doesn't allow me to use it? I asked the Oyster help desk to refund me to my bank account, but said to use my Oyster within the next 4 days! There's no wonder we advise people to buy paper tickets when these things cause so much hassle! You have PRIVILEGED travel. PRI-VIL-EGED. Which means that you're already getting a better deal than the vast majority of users. If you want to use paper tickets, GO FOR IT. You'll be out of pocket by more than 80p. I left my staff pass at home the other day. Guess what? I paid for my travel. Full fare, on contactless, so about £3.20 for my journey. I actually work on the Tube, and if I don't make it into work, or spend hours arguing for my £3.20 back, then the trains don't run. In theory I could - and the CCC are very good at refunding such mistakes - but it's simply not worth the hassle. What a glorious life you must live if EIGHTY PENCE is the worst of your problems. Sorry, I just can't take this thread seriously any more. (Views my own and not those of my employer or the forum etc. etc.)
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Post by greggygreggygreg on Apr 24, 2018 16:15:02 GMT
I wasn't ranting. I was just commenting mainly for the benefit of those who don't have discounted travel, who can be a lot more out of pocket. It might be called privilige travel, but it is a legally protected contractual entitlement.
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Post by jamesb on Apr 24, 2018 16:30:12 GMT
I sometimes forget if I have touched in or not at Roding Valley, especially if there is a long wait for a train. It is quite convenient to complete an incomplete journey online, and whenever I have phoned the CCC they have always refunded me and are very polite.
We are lucky to have a contactless system.
Step on a bus at Epping station, for example [outside TfL's area] and there is a queue of people waiting to pay with cash. I now regularly travel to Harlow using this route, and it is amazing how much time it takes for people to get the correct change etc. Oyster / contactless speeds things up a lot. In addition, I pay over £5 for a return fare from Harlow to Epping, vs unlimited journeys by bus within 1 hour for £1.50 on TfL services.
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 24, 2018 17:11:19 GMT
I wasn't ranting. I was just commenting mainly for the benefit of those who don't have discounted travel, who can be a lot more out of pocket. It might be called privilige travel, but it is a legally protected contractual entitlement. I've never seen gates open without being able to touch in and out. You seem to have encountered a rare event. If this happens to anyone a simple phone call corrects the problem if the system doesn't put it right overnight.
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Apr 24, 2018 17:34:02 GMT
Not sure what the point of this thread is. It’s going round in circles and serves nothing more than irritating other members. It’s ok to rant on this forum, but it becomes tedious and nonsensical when it’s moaned about to death. I appreciate 80p means something to you, but this forum isn’t the place for that. You’ve made your point and this thread is now locked
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