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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 18:53:53 GMT
To that end, Thameslink (central section) needs to be on the Tube map. Perhaps it shouldn't be called Tube map then. With all the additions it is barely a half Tube map these days - Overground, DLR, TfL Rail, trams, CrossRail soon... Just call it TfL Services map and be done with it. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 19, 2018 20:50:22 GMT
To that end, Thameslink (central section) needs to be on the Tube map. Perhaps it shouldn't be called Tube map then. With all the additions it is barely a half Tube map these days - Overground, DLR, TfL Rail, trams, CrossRail soon... Just call it TfL Services map and be done with it. It would be difficult, not to mention enormously wasteful and confusing, to rebrand something that's globally known (I'd expect) as 'The Tube Map' especially when proposed alternative soubriquets are less inspiring no matter how pedantically accurate we try to make them. Whatever appears on it is, at the very least, helpful to travellers and whilst a jarring problem for those requiring a more ordered way of things, we have to remember that 'Tube Map' is snappy, easy to remember and will not cause the collapse of society. There really are far more pressing matters to concern ourselves with in life......  |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 19, 2018 22:34:40 GMT
Perhaps it shouldn't be called Tube map then. With all the additions it is barely a half Tube map these days - Overground, DLR, TfL Rail, trams, CrossRail soon... Just call it TfL Services map and be done with it. .... There really are far more pressing matters to concern ourselves with in life... Such as where are my house keys? |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Feb 20, 2018 7:20:47 GMT
Perhaps it shouldn't be called Tube map then. With all the additions it is barely a half Tube map these days - Overground, DLR, TfL Rail, trams, CrossRail soon... Just call it TfL Services map and be done with it. It would be difficult, not to mention enormously wasteful and confusing, to rebrand something that's globally known (I'd expect) as 'The Tube Map' especially when proposed alternative soubriquets are less inspiring no matter how pedantically accurate we try to make them. Whatever appears on it is, at the very least, helpful to travellers and whilst a jarring problem for those requiring a more ordered way of things, we have to remember that 'Tube Map' is snappy, easy to remember and will not cause the collapse of society. There really are far more pressing matters to concern ourselves with in life...... The name Tube Map is only a relatively recent creation - mid 1990s if I recall correctly. It was Journey Planner before that. It could quite happily be changed if there was a need. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 20, 2018 7:47:30 GMT
It would be difficult, not to mention enormously wasteful and confusing, to rebrand something that's globally known (I'd expect) as 'The Tube Map' especially when proposed alternative soubriquets are less inspiring no matter how pedantically accurate we try to make them. Whatever appears on it is, at the very least, helpful to travellers and whilst a jarring problem for those requiring a more ordered way of things, we have to remember that 'Tube Map' is snappy, easy to remember and will not cause the collapse of society. There really are far more pressing matters to concern ourselves with in life...... The name Tube Map is only a relatively recent creation - mid 1990s if I recall correctly. It was Journey Planner before that. It could quite happily be changed if there was a need. If you or I stood in the street with a bunch of them and asked 1000 random members of the public what they were called I'd be amazed if more than a handful said anything other than "Tube Map". I'm nearly 53 and I've always called it that despite having more than a passing interest. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 13:11:17 GMT
Pedant in me is still outraged.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 20, 2018 13:55:02 GMT
Pedant in me is still outraged. There's a fairly healthy pedantry club on DD Alex, some of it so granular it'd make you wince........  |
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Post by spsmiler on Feb 22, 2018 0:22:17 GMT
Lets take pedantry up a notch.
Since the paper map is called the "Tube" map, should it really include the cut 'n' cover sub-surface lines which use trains that are too large to fit real tube tunnels?
Oh and why does it exclude London's first deep level tube line that was built for mainline sized trains?
Certainly Crossrail 1 and 2 should appear on this map as these will both be true tube train services... when in Central London.
btw, I like the term 'London Journey Planner'
simon
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 22, 2018 9:22:31 GMT
Lets take pedantry up a notch. Since the paper map is called the "Tube" map, should it really include the cut 'n' cover sub-surface lines which use trains that are too large to fit real tube tunnels? Oh and why does it exclude London's first deep level tube line that was built for mainline sized trains? Certainly Crossrail 1 and 2 should appear on this map as these will both be true tube train services... when in Central London. btw, I like the term 'London Journey Planner' simon TfL like 'Tube Map' link....and so do Wikipedia for what it's worth..... link |
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Post by jukes on Feb 22, 2018 11:37:41 GMT
In 1953 the the pocket map had RAILWAYS on it. By 1961 that had changed to UNDERGROUND and by the 70s or 80s to TUBE so it's not such an entrenched name. It would simply be a matter of reviving the naming convention of the 1950s to correctly describe the new reality so perhaps 'TfL Rail Map' - although I would not do that until after the temporary name of TfLRail changes to Elizabeth line in December 2018.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 22, 2018 12:31:23 GMT
In 1953 the the pocket map had RAILWAYS on it. By 1961 that had changed to UNDERGROUND and by the 70s or 80s to TUBE so it's not such an entrenched name. It would simply be a matter of reviving the naming convention of the 1950s to correctly describe the new reality so perhaps 'TfL Rail Map' - although I would not do that until after the temporary name of TfLRail changes to Elizabeth line in December 2018. Nearly 50 years of it? I wouldn't bother changing it at all, as nearly everybody calls it the Tube Map and would likely continue to do so regardless. It would achieve nothing. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 22, 2018 12:48:39 GMT
TfL like 'Tube Map' link....and so do Wikipedia for what it's worth..... linkWikipedia uses "Tube map" because that's the common name for it. If the official name changed then this would be reflected in the article text as soon as someone noticed (given the subject that would be very quickly after it happens!) but not the article title unless and until common usage changed. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 22, 2018 15:26:38 GMT
TfL like 'Tube Map' link....and so do Wikipedia for what it's worth..... linkWikipedia uses "Tube map" because that's the common name for it. If the official name changed then this would be reflected in the article text as soon as someone noticed (given the subject that would be very quickly after it happens!) but not the article title unless and until common usage changed. Exactly....it's what everyone, including TfL calls it, which is what I've been saying. It's staggering that anybody even wants to go to the bother of changing something of so little consequence to life. Even assuming it did get officially changed one day, it'd still be known as the Tube Map....... |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Feb 22, 2018 17:32:09 GMT
But we're all agreed, that whatever its called, RAILWAYS, UNDERGROUND, Tube map, TFL Rail, theres no place for the cable car on it |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 12:16:13 GMT
The thing that really bugs me is inconsistency: after wide Oyster roll-out there is no meaningful separation between TfL services and the rest (from the passenger's point of view). It is just misleading and might direct people to less convenient services.
So we have a misleadingly named map and with fairly random selection of services - and what for? To please TfL management?
The map is also increasingly cluttered - with all the orange Overground spaghetti, and it also misleads people about the level of service they can expect, as most of the Overground is nowhere as frequent as the Tube or DLR.
Outrage :-P
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Post by brigham on Feb 23, 2018 12:42:56 GMT
It could have a 'sub-title', like Frankenstein:
"The Tube Map-Featuring all of London's famous Tube Railways, plus the Metropolitan, The District, and numerous other Railways operated by, or in conjunction with Transport for London; with a special pull-out section covering the Cross-Thames Aerial Gondola service".
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Post by djlynch on Feb 23, 2018 16:35:08 GMT
If it were up to me, I'd keep the existing idea of a map that includes all TFL-operated rail services but rename it, then put the "Tube Map" name on a map that's just Underground, DLR, and other very high frequency lines (maybe 12tph off-peak to qualify as "tube-like") as far as their last transfer point.
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Post by Jerome H on Mar 11, 2018 3:19:52 GMT
The thing that really bugs me is inconsistency: after wide Oyster roll-out there is no meaningful separation between TfL services and the rest (from the passenger's point of view). It is just misleading and might direct people to less convenient services. Standard oysterization, Yet we’ve got a map with a special tram zone and a novelty ride that also has it’s own fares. As for misleading, I’d expect most people who use the maps to not be regular users, and who might enjoy a scenic journey above ground with a slightly less crowded train (or at least would be perfectly happy in their bliss) Those on holiday might not be so time-conscious, nor would i expect them to google train frequencies. As for the paper map, I’m sure most of them end up in the likes of this forum. If I was still in London I’d grab 10 at a time. I’d be surprised if those on the forum didn’t do the same. |
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