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Post by A60stock on Feb 8, 2018 20:11:22 GMT
The jubilee line was suspended between Willesden Green and stanmore this morning during the rush hour. When i got to finchley road however, to go SOUTHBOUND, the jubilee line train there was held for around 15 mins, and no sign of any northbound trains. After the 15 mins, all of a sudden again, trains start running as usual and i start seeing northbound trains. My train then departs.
1. If the jubilee is suspended towards the stanmore end of the line, HOW does this affect a train going southbound, is the strategy just to stop all trains wherever they are now?
2. The staff member making the announcements stated that the train at finchely road would be held for a while as trains were being reversed at CHARING CROSS. How is this information relevant at all? The majority of customers have no idea the jubilee line ever went to charing cross (nearly 20 years now) and would surely be confused by this message as charing cross is not on the jubilee line! Would it not make more sense to say reversing at green park?
Additionally, if there is a suspension, north of wilesden green, why go to charing cross to reverse?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 8, 2018 21:07:35 GMT
Perhaps it was the service from Stratford that was being reversed in the Green Park area, preventing trains from further north running through?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 21:16:57 GMT
Perhaps it was the service from Stratford that was being reversed in the Green Park area, preventing trains from further north running through? As it happens, you can actually only reverse southbound trains from the Finchley Road direction at Charing Cross, there is no way to get there from the northbound.
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Post by goldenarrow on Feb 8, 2018 21:22:04 GMT
A60stock, The service disruption you experienced this morning was due to a signal failure at Wembley Park resulting in the suspension of the services between Neasden and Stanmore although Willesden Green would have acted as a tandem terminus to short trip delayed services too. The Jubilee line runs a very frequent service in the peaks and so any disruption will stack up trains in a number of minutes requiring line controllers to halt both sides of the service in order to prevent a rapid stack of services and keep trains carrying peak time crush loads held in the platforms for obvious reasons. Another example of how high frequency disruption is dealt with on the Tube is the Victoria line which at peak times famously has more trains than it has platforms to accommodate them and so as soon as the line experiences major dirupton the first course of action is to send 4-6 trains back to the depot as an immediate measure before more drastic measures such as holding the service may be considered. Obviously this is all dependant on the lines service frequency and actual location of the disruption and the resultant service pattern available to controllers but the higher the service frequency the less time it will take for services to stack up in disruption and so must be stopped faster. It's not uncommon to see Jubilee services short tripped at Green Park and running empty to reverse at Charing Cross either to correct an unbalanced service or to shuffle services around in order to recover lost time both of which would have happened due to this mornings disruption. I don't mean to be a pedant here but what the driver relayed over the PA is technically true as the reversal point itself is Charing Cross whilst the train itself would empty at Green Park which isn't a reversing point just a de-training one.
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Post by superteacher on Feb 9, 2018 13:11:09 GMT
Technically correct to say “reversing at Charing Cross”, but I agree that it’s a confusing message and not really relevant. The vast majority of passengers don’t care about the operational technicalities - they just want to know how it affects their journey.
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Post by jimini on Feb 9, 2018 14:27:41 GMT
The Jubilee line runs a very frequent service in the peaks and so any disruption will stack up trains in a number of minutes requiring line controllers to halt both sides of the service in order to prevent a rapid stack of services and keep trains carrying peak time crush loads held in the platforms for obvious reasons. Another example of how high frequency disruption is dealt with on the Tube is the Victoria line which at peak times famously has more trains than it has platforms to accommodate them and so as soon as the line experiences major dirupton the first course of action is to send 4-6 trains back to the depot as an immediate measure before more drastic measures such as holding the service may be considered. Yep, I got caught up in this at the other end of the line (Stratford travelling to London Bridge). As you say, there were more trains being taken out of service and sent to Stratford Market Depot from Stratford than in service units departing Stratford.
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Feb 9, 2018 15:23:51 GMT
A60stock, Another example of how high frequency disruption is dealt with on the Tube is the Victoria line which at peak times famously has more trains than it has platforms to accommodate them and so as soon as the line experiences major dirupton the first course of action is to send 4-6 trains back to the depot as an immediate measure before more drastic measures such as holding the service may be considered. I don't mean to be a pedant here but what the driver relayed over the PA is technically true as the reversal point itself is Charing Cross whilst the train itself would empty at Green Park which isn't a reversing point just a de-training one. Presumably then, if there is an outage at Wembley Park, all the short tripping will result in an avalanche of southbound trains and in this case, sending them to Charing Cross is both the nearest option rather than running through to depot, and presumably 4 - 6 trains can be accommodated on the Charing Cross spur thereby being got out of the way immediately, but better placed to plug the deficit of Northbound trains that will arise once the service is resumed?
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Post by A60stock on Feb 9, 2018 17:29:55 GMT
Yes, exactly my point, saying trains are reversing at charing cross would confuse someone who isn't aware the jubilee line used to go there.
Why cant trains run to CX in service? (Infact, why was it not kept as a branch)
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 9, 2018 18:33:30 GMT
Charing Cross was not kept as a branch because then there would be more trains on the quieter western part of the line than the very busy extension, which is overcrowded as it is.
I believe trains can't run there in service because of platform access issues - the escalators have been decommissioned and at least one passageway has been sealed off by a wall (with doors in, but nowhere near wide enough to safely cater for crowds). I think it can still be used in an emergency though.
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Post by rsdworker on Feb 10, 2018 5:26:24 GMT
Charing Cross was not kept as a branch because then there would be more trains on the quieter western part of the line than the very busy extension, which is overcrowded as it is. I believe trains can't run there in service because of platform access issues - the escalators have been decommissioned and at least one passageway has been sealed off by a wall (with doors in, but nowhere near wide enough to safely cater for crowds). I think it can still be used in an emergency though. well not true - i believe there was speical event while ago - trains serviced the CX for speical event - i beileve its was tube flim night - the escalators used as stairways however i agree the CX should used as emergency detraining example few trains go to CX to tip out the passegners in event of emergency its still useable in fliming as well - sometimes trains are serving CX for fliming as well with passegeners in it
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 10, 2018 8:35:08 GMT
Charing Cross was not kept as a branch because then there would be more trains on the quieter western part of the line than the very busy extension, which is overcrowded as it is. I believe trains can't run there in service because of platform access issues - the escalators have been decommissioned and at least one passageway has been sealed off by a wall (with doors in, but nowhere near wide enough to safely cater for crowds). I think it can still be used in an emergency though. well not true - i believe there was speical event while ago - trains serviced the CX for speical event - i beileve its was tube flim night - the escalators used as stairways however i agree the CX should used as emergency detraining example few trains go to CX to tip out the passegners in event of emergency its still useable in fliming as well - sometimes trains are serving CX for fliming as well with passegeners in it If it's the event I'm thinking of a year or so ago there were trains stabled in the platforms but they were not there in conjunction with the event, and did not provide a service of any kind. All access was via the fixed escalators. Chris M's surmation is pretty much spot on.
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Post by superteacher on Feb 10, 2018 8:39:44 GMT
Charing Cross was not kept as a branch because then there would be more trains on the quieter western part of the line than the very busy extension, which is overcrowded as it is. I believe trains can't run there in service because of platform access issues - the escalators have been decommissioned and at least one passageway has been sealed off by a wall (with doors in, but nowhere near wide enough to safely cater for crowds). I think it can still be used in an emergency though. well not true - i believe there was speical event while ago - trains serviced the CX for speical event - i beileve its was tube flim night - the escalators used as stairways however i agree the CX should used as emergency detraining example few trains go to CX to tip out the passegners in event of emergency its still useable in fliming as well - sometimes trains are serving CX for fliming as well with passegeners in it The events you describe are not part of normal passenger services. So Chris is right - Charing Cross has never been served by trains in regular passenger service since the extension opened in 1999. I’m not sure if a passenger train ever got sent there by mistake though. Had that been the case, the passengers would have remained on the train until it returned to Green Park.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Feb 12, 2018 11:05:15 GMT
There were a few instances of service suspensions on the extension meaning that passengers did go back to Charing Cross after the extension opened, but it wasn't common.
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