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Post by silenthunter on Feb 1, 2018 21:43:23 GMT
I hope someone preserves a 315 and a 317.
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Post by phil on Feb 2, 2018 1:29:54 GMT
I hope someone preserves a 315 and a 317. Unlikely - where are you going to keep it for a start? Then there is the little matter that without a supply of electricity to keep the heaters on and the damp out, they will rot out in the open. The demise of the ERM at Coventry (well to be precise its very exsistance) tells you all you need to know about how well the UK Heritage movement (and indeed the attitude of the general public who overwhelmingly prefer steam trains when visiting Heritage railways). The NRM have said they intend to obtain the pioneer 313 unit for the national collection when Southern have finished with it - and that is likely to be the sole example of the PEP derived 313, 314, 315, 507 & 508 class to be saved. There are no plans as yet to obtain any examples of the 455, 456, 315, 318, 319, 320 or 321 classes (all based on the same Mk3 coach body profile)
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Post by linus on Feb 2, 2018 20:38:26 GMT
Epping-Ongar Railway might be interested.
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Post by silenthunter on Feb 2, 2018 21:49:50 GMT
All the ERM stock is finding new homes and there's still a proposal for the Bluebell to use the Ardingly branch as a third rail line in the 2030 timeframe. With a VEP, CIG and 5-BEL all being restored with the aim for mainline use, preserving an AC unit is entirely possible. Remember that the 306 class has an intact survivor.
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Post by phil on Feb 3, 2018 14:54:45 GMT
All the ERM stock is finding new homes and there's still a proposal for the Bluebell to use the Ardingly branch as a third rail line in the 2030 timeframe. With a VEP, CIG and 5-BEL all being restored with the aim for mainline use, preserving an AC unit is entirely possible. Remember that the 306 class has an intact survivor. I remind you that the ERM was basically a field in Coventry. While those involved did the best they could, it was quite clear that they were permanently short of cash unable to do much to arrest or reverse the continued long deterioration of the vehicles. Also if you look at the homes arranged for the vehicles since the ERM closed none have gone to places with undercover storage or with the resources to restore them to fully operational condition (indeed once 'home', a scheme to preserve the remains of the line that served Trawsfynydd Nuclear Power Station has subsequently collapsed - see www.national-preservation.com/threads/trawsfynydd-and-blaenau-ffestiniog-railway.19760/page-25). The Bluebell VEP never was at Coventry, has much of the required mainline safety kit already installed from its days with SWT (e.g. TPWS and crucially) has remained on the National Rail Network with large chunks of time spent in 3rd rail equipped carriage sheds / secure sidings. As such it has been spared some of the worst effects of the weather / vandals / thieves and can benefit from a regular supporters base - which includes quite a few people with the SWR franchise who are willing to provide siding space, technical advise and volunteer time to work on it. The 306 also has benefited from being something of Ilfords depot 'pet' as it were for many years. Again it has benefited from being kept largely undercover on the national network and having people / organisations willing to help keep it in good nick, such that it continued to operate on the mainline after privatisation (compare the 306 to the fate of the 'celebrity' ex SR 2BIL and 4 SUB units both of which saw no use after privatisation and have spent long periods stored outside on isolated bits of track, subject to vandalism etc). The Brighton Belle lot meanwhile are actually going in a subtly different direction from EMU preservation. Yes they want to restore a Brighton Belle unit, BUT for starters, they also envisage it being hauled by diesels too so they can tap into the fine dining market and go to places the VOSE does. The nature of the 'fine dining experience' also means the small kitchens and cramped 3rd / 2nd class seating geared around a 60minute dash to and from the Seaside are being ripped out / replaced with facilities and seating better suited to 5 course dinging and 2 / 3 / 4 hour long journeys. Finally there is NOT a proposal for the Bluebell to have the Ardingly branch open and fitted with 3rd rail* by 2030. What exists is an aspiration to rebuild the Ardingly branch (without 3rd rail) at some stage in the future. As such there is a steering group in existence looking at how best this might be achieved, and perhaps more importantly how the currently disused formation / structures can be safeguarded or bought into Bluebell ownership so that the railway doesn't wake up one day to find further bridges demolished, the tunnel filled in / sold to a hostile 3rd party. *Please read and inwardly digest this from the ORR. Its quite clear from this www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjzobaJ_4nZAhWKWsAKHbM6APQQFgguMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Forr.gov.uk%2F__data%2Fassets%2Fpdf_file%2F0017%2F17621%2Fdc-electrification-policy-statement.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1SIQZzStGdch9Ug5COwRlB and discussions behind the scenes that they will NOT COUNTENANCE ANY FURTHER CONDUCTOR RAIL ELECTRIFICATION beyond track layout alterations / berthing / depot rearrangements - i.e. you can forget any chance if Ashford - Hastings, the North Downs or the Uckfield branch getting it and there is no way they will tolerate the Heritage movement installing it either.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 3, 2018 16:27:02 GMT
Everybody, a very interesting thread but there are a lot of abbreviations slipping in without explanation. As has been requested before, let's make sure we all adhere to a proper description prior to the subsequent abbreviations to help those less knowledgeable. Cheers!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 3, 2018 17:21:15 GMT
Erring on the side of caution:
TOC - Train Operating Company, of which examples include: GA - Greater Anglia GVT - GoVia Thameslink Railway (more usually known as GTR) LO - London Overground SWT - (former) South West Trains SWR - South Western Railways (replaced SWT in August 2017) TfL Rail - precursor operation to Crossrail
BIL, BEL, SUB, CIG, VEP, PEP - the Southern Region codes respectively for classes 401, 403 (Brighton Belle), 405, 421, 423 and 445/446 BR - British Railways (as was) ERM - Electric Railway Museum NRM - National Railway Museum ORR - Office of Rail Regulation RM - type code of the original Routemaster bus designed in the 1950s: not to be confused with the "New Routemaster" pastiche, which has the type code "LT" ROSCO - Rolling Stock Company (who lease trains to TOCs) TfL - Transport for London TPWS - Train Protection & Warning System - a system for preventing/mitigating over-runs of signals. TS - tube stock VOSE - presumably the VSOE - Venice-Simplon-Orient Express: upmarket landcruise experience
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Post by phil on Feb 3, 2018 19:04:07 GMT
It is entirely possible to operate a heritage railway with overhead electrification, mind. Of course it is. However in the UK the ORR will effectively not permit it to happen by placing so many obstacles in the way that it becomes impossible for anyone to get round them.
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Post by phil on Feb 3, 2018 19:19:32 GMT
It is entirely possible to operate a heritage railway with overhead electrification, mind. In the UK there are the Seaton, Beamish and Crich tramway museum systems, all operating on the overhead, not to mention three working trolleybus museums. Which are not a problem because as with the national rail network (or indeed Pylons or domestic electricity supplies to houses) having electric cables up in the air and normally out of reach is in accordance with best practice. Whether the ORR would be happy with a Heritage Railway having 25KV is another matter - but as indicated they seem happy with the 750V (nominal) at Crich.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 4, 2018 19:12:53 GMT
Pete Waterman and his paypal account details?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Feb 4, 2018 19:39:08 GMT
Yeeessss! I'm not sure which I find funnier the literal interpretation of your reply, or the metaphorical implication of a EMU group routing through his rubbish for a discarded statement: "We've got it lads! His bank details! Let go and buy that rectifier before he finds out!"
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 4, 2018 19:46:31 GMT
Erring on the side of caution: TOC - Train Operating Company, of which examples include: GA - Greater Anglia GVT - GoVia Thameslink Railway (more usually known as GTR) LO - London Overground SWT - (former) South West Trains SWR - South Western Railways (replaced SWT in August 2017) TfL Rail - precursor operation to Crossrail BIL, BEL, SUB, CIG, VEP, PEP - the Southern Region codes respectively for classes 401, 403 (Brighton Belle), 405, 421, 423 and 445/446 BR - British Railways (as was) ERM - Electric Railway Museum NRM - National Railway Museum ORR - Office of Rail Regulation RM - type code of the original Routemaster bus designed in the 1950s: not to be confused with the "New Routemaster" pastiche, which has the type code "LT" ROSCO - Rolling Stock Company (who lease trains to TOCs) TfL - Transport for London TPWS - Train Protection & Warning System - a system for preventing/mitigating over-runs of signals. TS - tube stock VOSE - presumably the VSOE - Venice-Simplon-Orient Express: upmarket landcruise experience Gracias amigo.....
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Post by superteacher on Feb 8, 2018 19:57:25 GMT
Thread split (again!!!): The very interesting discussion about general heritage railway electrification has a new home - see below:
districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/29231/
Can we keep this thread purely for discussion about preserving class 315 / 317, as per the thread title. Thanks.
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