|
|
Post by Deep Level on Jan 26, 2018 17:49:01 GMT
So my train home from work on Wednesday was a 'Grange Hill via Woodford' train and given that this is the first time I've seen this I was wondering how common these trains are? As far as I'm aware services onto the Hainault loop via Woodford aren't very common now hence why the connection was removed from the line maps.
Its worth noting that this was during the evening peak so how they could justify taking a train out of service during this time I don't know and I assume it was being taken out of service as normally trains that go to Hainault are advertised as 'Hainault via Woodford'.
My next question would be why wouldn't you just run this train via Newbury Park as this route is extremely busy during the peaks?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 18:09:15 GMT
There remains one train booked to Grange Hill via Woodford in the Working Time Table, it's train 26, the 16:32½ from West Ruislip and it's the first train to stable in Hainault depot at 18:11.
Otherwise, it's not a very common routing, no.
To your other point, I have actually known for this train to be extended at least to Hainault. The first time I ever tried to use it a few years back that happened, though I have since seen it do its booked thing.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jan 26, 2018 18:14:14 GMT
Grange Hill via Woodford was on the old Central Line platform indicators, but Hainault via Woodford was not. Many years ago, (1970ish), there was a Mon-Fri Grange Hill via Woodford working that arrived at Oxford Circus around 8:50 a.m.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 18:31:47 GMT
Grange Hill via Woodford was on the old Central Line platform indicators, but Hainault via Woodford was not. Many years ago, (1970ish), there was a Mon-Fri Grange Hill via Woodford working that arrived at Oxford Circus around 8:50 a.m. Interesting =) These days both Grange Hill via Woodford and Hainault via Woodford are available on the front of the trains and on the indicators on the platforms. Plain old Grange Hill or Grange Hill via Newbury Park or Grange Hill via Hainault or something like that, however, doesn't seem to be an option, at least for the front of the trains. |
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 26, 2018 21:45:45 GMT
Its worth noting that this was during the evening peak so how they could justify taking a train out of service during this time I don't know By the time it could get back to central London the peak would be over. |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Jan 26, 2018 22:16:19 GMT
The reason that Grange Hill via Woodford is little used as destination or origination is that the "main line" beyond Woodford is just to busy, and that the three stations on the Loop are among the least used on the system.
Are not LU about to reduce all Loop trains to 4 cars and run them solely as a shuttle once again?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 22:19:05 GMT
The reason that Grange Hill via Woodford is little used as destination or origination is that the "main line" beyond Woodford is just to busy, and that the three stations on the Loop are among the least used on the system. Are not LU about to reduce all Loop trains to 4 cars and run them solely as a shuttle once again? Although to a very small extent there might be a bit of a causal loop there. Those three stations are among the least used because trains are 20 minutes apart. So they don't get many trains because they're little used. So nobody uses them. So they don't get many trains. So nobody uses them ... But Only to a small extent. If you doubled the service you might get a few more passengers  I'm certainly not saying trains'd be crush loaded even at 11 pm if only the service were a little stronger |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Jan 26, 2018 22:22:20 GMT
So how do you encourage travel on the Loop without making travel on the main line unbearable? It's vastly overcrowded now, let alone when/if the terrible Epping Forest local plan comes in?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 22:35:05 GMT
Oh you don't, there's no need and no excuse for sacrificing the mainline for the loop, I'm just saying there's probably a bit of a negative feedback loop.
As far as I'm concerned what can be done has been done, they're in zone 4, pretty generous service all things considered. I don't think anything needs doing =)
|
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jan 26, 2018 22:40:54 GMT
When I was a lad Grange Hill via Woodford was as common as muck. You don't know you're born nowadays.........  |
|
|
|
Post by Colin D on Jan 27, 2018 2:40:38 GMT
When I was a guard/ guard motorman on the Central, more moons ago than I care to remember, that was, as whistlekiller2000 says a regular occurrence. Trains to Grange Hill via Woodford stabled ‘wrong way round’ and were brought back into service the next morning via Grange Hill to Woodford. Some went directly into the city and a few reversed at Woodford to Debden iirc, to start the day from there. |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Jan 27, 2018 8:21:58 GMT
As ColinD says. this was a common destination in the 80s and 90s, and led to large crowds at Woodford waiting the next main line train. Debden reversers were also more common, probably because there were tw reversing roads there. Anyone know when they were reduced to one?
Through Eppings were relatively less common, but that was before LU put Epping into Zone 6 for the 18 mile journey to central London, thus ensuring everyone from Central Essex drove there, and clogged it up, to get a cheap commute!
|
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 27, 2018 9:23:27 GMT
Grange Hill via Woodford was on the old Central Line platform indicators, but Hainault via Woodford was not. Many years ago, (1970ish), there was a Mon-Fri Grange Hill via Woodford working that arrived at Oxford Circus around 8:50 a.m. Interesting =) These days both Grange Hill via Woodford and Hainault via Woodford are available on the front of the trains and on the indicators on the platforms. Plain old Grange Hill or Grange Hill via Newbury Park or Grange Hill via Hainault or something like that, however, doesn't seem to be an option, at least for the front of the trains. What would be the point of a Grange Hill via Newbury Park/Grange Hill via Hainault? The only trains terminating at Grange Hill are going into Hainault depot, if you're coming round the inner rail it would be quicker to terminate at Hainault and go into the depot from there. If you go in from Hainault the driver has to change ends up the North Neck, if you go in from Grange Hill you have to change ends on the wash road as well as the North Neck. Plus at Hainault you might get assistance from station staff with closing up the train, at Grange Hill its just the driver closing up. |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 27, 2018 9:27:22 GMT
The reason that Grange Hill via Woodford is little used as destination or origination is that the "main line" beyond Woodford is just to busy, and that the three stations on the Loop are among the least used on the system. Are not LU about to reduce all Loop trains to 4 cars and run them solely as a shuttle once again? The word is that the new timetable has been scrapped and we'll be sticking with WTT69 for the foreseeable future |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jan 27, 2018 9:36:16 GMT
Interesting =) These days both Grange Hill via Woodford and Hainault via Woodford are available on the front of the trains and on the indicators on the platforms. Plain old Grange Hill or Grange Hill via Newbury Park or Grange Hill via Hainault or something like that, however, doesn't seem to be an option, at least for the front of the trains. What would be the point of a Grange Hill via Newbury Park/Grange Hill via Hainault? The only trains terminating at Grange Hill are going into Hainault depot, if you're coming round the inner rail it would be quicker to terminate at Hainault and go into the depot from there. If you go in from Hainault the driver has to change ends up the North Neck, if you go in from Grange Hill you have to change ends on the wash road as well as the North Neck. Plus at Hainault you might get assistance from station staff with closing up the train, at Grange Hill its just the driver closing up. Haven’t checked the current timetable, but some trains used to terminate at Hainault, detrain, run empty to Grange Hill then into the depot from the inner rail platform. Also, train 26 is sometimes extended from Grange Hill to Hainault when it is required to reform into a (presumably cancelled) train. aslefshrugged, is T26 operated by a Leytonstone turn? |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 27, 2018 10:14:06 GMT
What would be the point of a Grange Hill via Newbury Park/Grange Hill via Hainault? The only trains terminating at Grange Hill are going into Hainault depot, if you're coming round the inner rail it would be quicker to terminate at Hainault and go into the depot from there. If you go in from Hainault the driver has to change ends up the North Neck, if you go in from Grange Hill you have to change ends on the wash road as well as the North Neck. Plus at Hainault you might get assistance from station staff with closing up the train, at Grange Hill its just the driver closing up. Haven’t checked the current timetable, but sone trains used to terminate at Hainault, detrsin, run empty to Grange Hill then into the depot from the inner rail platform. Also, train 26 is sometimes extended from Grange Hill to Hainault when it is required to reform into a (presumably cancelled) train. aslefshrugged , is T26 operated by a Leytonstone turn? According to the Rolling Stock Working pages in WTT69 T026 Monday to Friday is the only Hainault Depot via Grange Hill stabler (HAIDTG), all the others are from Hainault (HAI DT). content.tfl.gov.uk/wtt-69-central.pdfT026 is sometimes reformed and extended beyond Grange Hill but obviously once its reformed it isn't T026 any more. The only reason to run trains empty from Hainault to Grange Hill and stable from there would be if they couldn't go in from the Hainault end for some reason. T026 (or the equivalent) was a Leytonstone duty under WTT67 and I used to do it on a regular basis, I've not done it since WTT69 was introduced in August 2016 so I'm not sure who does it now. I rarely start before 15:00 these days (the joy of being in a Mafia) so it could be an earlier duty. I'll check when I book on later |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jan 27, 2018 11:04:45 GMT
Haven’t checked the current timetable, but sone trains used to terminate at Hainault, detrsin, run empty to Grange Hill then into the depot from the inner rail platform. Also, train 26 is sometimes extended from Grange Hill to Hainault when it is required to reform into a (presumably cancelled) train. aslefshrugged , is T26 operated by a Leytonstone turn? The only reason to run trains empty from Hainault to Grange Hill and stable from there would be if they couldn't go in from the Hainault end for some reason. This was definitely a booked move in a previous timetable but no idea when. |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 27, 2018 20:17:18 GMT
T026 is stabled by a Hainault duty
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 20:30:42 GMT
Interesting =) These days both Grange Hill via Woodford and Hainault via Woodford are available on the front of the trains and on the indicators on the platforms. Plain old Grange Hill or Grange Hill via Newbury Park or Grange Hill via Hainault or something like that, however, doesn't seem to be an option, at least for the front of the trains. ... if you go in from Grange Hill you have to change ends on the wash road as well as the North Neck. Why is that? I know that in the timetable train 26 is booked to use 21 road alongside Hainault station, is there any reason why 70/71 road are preferred? |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 28, 2018 0:13:42 GMT
It shouldn't be worked through the South Neck alongside Hainault platforms as those roads aren't part of our training. That's shunter territory
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jan 30, 2018 13:08:44 GMT
|
|
hobbayne
RIP John Lennon and George Harrison
Posts: 516
|
Post by hobbayne on Feb 1, 2018 16:07:29 GMT
What would be the point of a Grange Hill via Newbury Park/Grange Hill via Hainault? The only trains terminating at Grange Hill are going into Hainault depot, if you're coming round the inner rail it would be quicker to terminate at Hainault and go into the depot from there. If you go in from Hainault the driver has to change ends up the North Neck, if you go in from Grange Hill you have to change ends on the wash road as well as the North Neck. Plus at Hainault you might get assistance from station staff with closing up the train, at Grange Hill its just the driver closing up. Haven’t checked the current timetable, but some trains used to terminate at Hainault, detrain, run empty to Grange Hill then into the depot from the inner rail platform. Also, train 26 is sometimes extended from Grange Hill to Hainault when it is required to reform into a (presumably cancelled) train. aslefshrugged, is T26 operated by a Leytonstone turn? A White City driver brings it down from WER To WHC, where a Hainault driver relieves him and stables in the depot at 18.11 |
|
|
|
Post by thewub on Apr 9, 2018 13:04:20 GMT
Interesting =) These days both Grange Hill via Woodford and Hainault via Woodford are available on the front of the trains and on the indicators on the platforms. Plain old Grange Hill or Grange Hill via Newbury Park or Grange Hill via Hainault or something like that, however, doesn't seem to be an option, at least for the front of the trains. About 11:10 this morning I saw a train at South Woodford. The platform indicator read "Grange Hill via Woodford" and the front of the train "Hainault via Woodford". I initially assumed it was because the former wouldn't fit on the front of trains, but it sounds like that's not a problem. |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Apr 9, 2018 13:30:22 GMT
Interesting =) These days both Grange Hill via Woodford and Hainault via Woodford are available on the front of the trains and on the indicators on the platforms. Plain old Grange Hill or Grange Hill via Newbury Park or Grange Hill via Hainault or something like that, however, doesn't seem to be an option, at least for the front of the trains. About 11:10 this morning I saw a train at South Woodford. The platform indicator read "Grange Hill via Woodford" and the front of the train "Hainault via Woodford". I initially assumed it was because the former wouldn't fit on the front of trains, but it sounds like that's not a problem. Maybe a bit of confusion between the driver and controller. If the platform describer says Grange Hill via Woodford, then the train will be signalled into the depot when it gets to Grange Hill. |
|
I'm certainly not saying trains'd be crush loaded even at 11 pm if only the service were a little stronger 
