Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 23:07:48 GMT
Thought I'd take a second or two to respond to this whole situation.
I was a Sydney Trains Driver up until about 6 months ago, having subsequently moved onto another rail network. In days gone by, I have regularly worked services into and out of the platform at Richmond, where the incident occurred.
Richmond has no approach control in the form of intermediate train stops. You simply receive a 'Caution' (Green over Red) indication on the last Home signal before the platform in concern, with most Drivers generally hitting the arrival end of the platform at approximately 25km/h.
The posted peed limit for that portion of line into the platform is 40km/h, for what it's worth.
I dare say, working off the footage, that the train appears to have been doing in the realm of 15km/h at the time of impact.
Not to speculate, however I have heard mention of fatigue potentially having come into play, which I can fully understand and empathise with, coupled with the fact that the Driver in concern was apparently working an 'overtime' shift to boot, at a time of day they did not regularly work.
It will be interesting to see what comes of this in the ensuing months. Suffice to say that intermediate train stops or similar will undoubtedly make an appearance at this location in time to come.
As for the Australian media, they indeed do not hold back, nor mince their words. I feel that some of the content to come out of their reporting is nothing short of vile.
The fact that they also had the gall to publicise the identity of the Driver involved is also nothing short of average.
Anyway, my two Bob's worth!
|
|
|
Post by roman80 on Mar 8, 2018 5:38:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by roman80 on Dec 31, 2019 19:11:48 GMT
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Dec 31, 2019 19:39:48 GMT
A passing admin or moderator may wish to merge this post into that thread. I've had a look for the existing thread, I can't see it anywhere (and a search for "Richmond" gives lots of irrelevant answers), if someone can provide a link then we'll happily merge/unlock.
|
|
|
Post by kesmet on Dec 31, 2019 19:41:00 GMT
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Dec 31, 2019 19:57:53 GMT
Thanks kesmet, Threads merged/unlocked
|
|
|
Post by kesmet on Jan 1, 2020 12:40:15 GMT
The Sydney Morning Herald article reports that one of the issues in the crash was that the buffer stop and the train were, essentially, incompatible - due to mismatched heights. Am I right in thinking that this is the sort of thing that is addressed in planning stages of new stock in the UK? Or could we also have a similar mismatch in heights and, hence, worsened crash outcomes?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,767
|
Post by Chris M on Jan 1, 2020 19:07:35 GMT
I've not read the report yet, but AIUI all UK stock running on the mainline, other than tube stock, has the same buffer height (since 1887 the standard for goods wagons at least has been "roughly a foot in diameter with centres about five foot eight inches apart and three foot four inches above rail height") so that issue wouldn't arise - or at least not in the same way. The issue in the UK is differing deigns of coupling/buffers/anti-climbers and their relative prominence - most buffer stops are designed for impacts from traditional buffers slightly outside the rails, but often modern coupler designs negate the need for buffers and so an initial impact with a buffer stop occurs centrally between the rails. Compare for example buffer stops on the DLR with traditional buffer stops
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Jan 1, 2020 19:14:53 GMT
The Mainline network tends to have some kind of wooden block mounted on the buffer beam now, that will engage with the coupler on multiple unit stock. Edit to add picture I've found online: When LU introduced the S Stock wasn't there a programme of upgrading the "train arrestors"?
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196
|
Post by Tom on Jan 1, 2020 20:00:22 GMT
Yes, there was, but it's also worth considering that the reasons for providing buffer stops have changed through the years.
In railway terms, 'buffing' is a compressive force between vehicles (and fixed objects). Buffers on vehicles act to absorb the compressive forces between them. Buffer stops act to engage with the buffers on the train at the end of a piece of track for the train to buff against; they were only designed for very low speed compression and certainly not for any high-speed impact. The traditional way of managing a higher speed approach to a dead-end was to either install hydraulic buffers which provided a controlled buffing force until they were fully compressed, or install a sand drag (or more accuratley a sand hump) which would give a degree of retardation prior to ultimate derailment or collision with the buffer stop.
The Moorgate collision (amongst others) demonstrated that sand drags weren't actually that effective and this lead to a series of trails where (unstaffed) trains were driven into a series of materials which were considered to have good retarding properties - this lead to the design of train arrestor we have today at Edgware which is designed to provide controlled retardation at or below a specific speed. However, ealrier than this (as far back as 1902), research in Europe (particularly Germany) had developed various designs of friction buffer stop to provide a controlled means of deceleration - usually using additional blocks positioned behind the buffer to provide controlled deceleration and dissipation of the kinetic energy involved.
The modern train arrestor is thus designed to cope with a far higher impact speed than the traditional rail-built buffer stop ever was.
|
|
pgb
Posts: 1,026
Member is Online
|
Post by pgb on Jan 1, 2020 21:51:39 GMT
From 1984 Click with modern stops From a similar time Click with a concrete block
|
|
|
Post by zbang on Jan 1, 2020 23:55:28 GMT
The traditional way of managing a higher speed approach to a dead-end was to either install hydraulic buffers which provided a controlled buffing force until they were fully compressed, [...] BTW, there used to be some fine (and quite old) examples of this on a couple of mainline platforms at Paddington (11 & 12?). I'm sure I have a picture or two of them but I'm also sure I can't find them a the moment.
|
|
|
Post by MoreToJack on Jan 2, 2020 1:55:15 GMT
They are still there.
|
|
pgb
Posts: 1,026
Member is Online
|
Post by pgb on Jan 2, 2020 9:21:10 GMT
The traditional way of managing a higher speed approach to a dead-end was to either install hydraulic buffers which provided a controlled buffing force until they were fully compressed, [...] BTW, there used to be some fine (and quite old) examples of this on a couple of mainline platforms at Paddington (11 & 12?). I'm sure I have a picture or two of them but I'm also sure I can't find them a the moment. There are several around the country and they get tested like this
|
|
|
Post by philthetube on Jan 2, 2020 21:40:28 GMT
BTW, there used to be some fine (and quite old) examples of this on a couple of mainline platforms at Paddington (11 & 12?). I'm sure I have a picture or two of them but I'm also sure I can't find them a the moment. There are several around the country and they get tested like thisI have done this testing in the past at Baker st. using A stock, they were water filled and used to dump the water on the track when tested.
|
|
|
Post by philthetube on Jan 2, 2020 21:45:14 GMT
Something which cannot happen on the underground, all terminal platforms are protected with tripcock/trainstop arrangements to ensure trains do not do mere then 10mph in these platforms. Except on the ATC/ATO lines of course, where there are no such physical items. The professionalism of drivers on manual Lines prevents the equipment being tested at terminal stations. The on train side of the system is tested both on train prep and by tripckck testers located around the network, the on track equipment while not actually tested is visible to drivers and it would be quickly noticed if there was a problem with it's operation. At Chesham, if this fails the signal approaching is put to danger, I have no idea about any other location.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196
|
Post by Tom on Jan 2, 2020 23:01:51 GMT
At Chesham, if this fails the signal approaching is put to danger, I have no idea about any other location. It's the same at other locations. If the trainstops aren't detected up, or the devices that start the timing of the trainstops aren't in the right state, the previous signal will not clear.
|
|