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Post by holborncentral on Nov 7, 2017 19:23:41 GMT
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Nov 7, 2017 21:05:50 GMT
I suspect TfL will start to use contractors as much as possible and therefore lose some in-house experience.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 7, 2017 21:14:55 GMT
As ever with these things the media have gone for the headline. Tom Edwards of the BBC tweeted an image of one page from a letter send to the TUs and clearly sent on to him. A maximum number of 1434 posts are "in scope" of the restructuring. The document says something between 60 and 265 (approx numbers) jobs will disappear. Most people would remain employed but in new posts. This is pretty standard stuff for this sort of reorganisation having been through it umpteen times in the past. If TfL are lucky they may get sufficient takers for redundancy that most of the headcount reduction is covered that way. Clearly that does not take away the stress and anxiety for those souls who have to go through the interview and assessment process.
Without knowing what specific roles are in scope it is impossible to determine the impacts on actitivities. I had imagined that Engineering had already been put through the mill when it was all put together but perhaps I'm wrong about that and this is the process to move to the restructured reorganisation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 7:27:39 GMT
Seems to be remarkably similar to Company Plan back in 1992 and that didn’t work out well for everyone
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Post by brigham on Nov 8, 2017 8:31:34 GMT
It seems very much in line with the previously-mentioned PW policy of reducing flexibility to cut costs. We'll end up with a railway which can only run if everything goes to timetable.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 8, 2017 8:44:39 GMT
The letter on Tom Edwards twitter
"The business area affected by the proposed changes is the TfL Engineering Directorate"
"The number of actual dismissals is likely to be lower than the number of possible dismissals because it is anticipated that employees will obtain new roles via the selection and assessment process"
"The overall reduction in headcount is dependent on a number of factors to be discussed during consultation but is anticipated to be between 68 and 276".
"The establishments affected by the possible redundancies are: Palestra House, 197 Blackfriars Road, London SE1 8NJ Albany House, Petty France, SW1H 9EA Broadway Complex, 55 Broadway SW1H 0BD Templar House, 81-87 High Holborn WC1v 6NU"
Sounds to me like they're getting rid of a load of suits
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 8:55:34 GMT
I had an email yesterday about changes in my area Asset Operations or better known now as AO. Apparently it only effects senior management but let’s wait and see
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 8, 2017 9:01:51 GMT
I had an email yesterday about changes in my area Asset Operations or better known now as AO. Apparently it only effects senior management but let’s wait and see Also from the letter on Tom Edward's twitter Number of employees in scope/possible dismissals Pay Band 1 - 24 Pay Band 2 - 368 Pay Band 3 - 924 Pay Band 4 - 118 Total -------- 1434 I know I got them the wrong way round first time
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 8, 2017 11:40:52 GMT
Is pay band 1 highest or lowest?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 12:04:31 GMT
Lowest
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Post by holborncentral on Nov 8, 2017 19:28:40 GMT
So pay band 4 is the highest then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 19:48:44 GMT
under the normal banding 5 is the highest which is director level
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 8, 2017 19:59:20 GMT
So if Pay Band 5 is Director Level are most of the possible job losses are from senior and middle managers (Pay Band 3 and 4)?
Oh dear
How sad
Never mind
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Post by holborncentral on Nov 8, 2017 20:30:03 GMT
Ah I get it now. At first I thought pay band 1 was the highest. Don't know why! Do these pay bands apply to all LU staff or just the management side of it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 20:41:31 GMT
They are actually TfL grades but LU has started to adopt these in certain grades i.e T/Op would be a Band 1 whereas a Station Supervisor would be a Band 2 and a Line Manager would be a Band 4.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 8, 2017 21:25:36 GMT
Ah I get it now. At first I thought pay band 1 was the highest. Don't know why! Do these pay bands apply to all LU staff or just the management side of it? They certainly applied to me when I was a senior manager at LU. We were later TUPE-d into TfL where we had no choice but to move or else we dismissed ourselves. Don't you just love reorganisations? Clearly they are going for management levels to try to strip out higher salary and pension costs. Last year's Annual Report and Accounts was like reading a "Director's Death List" - so many of them have been booted out, no doubt with reasonably handsome payoffs. So glad I walked in 2012 and have avoided however many rounds of job re-application and assessment that have been foisted on people. I suspect HR is the only department that is being run off their feet at the moment. Let's just hope that they have managed to get some sort of decent succession planning in place in Engineering. If a lot of the old LU Chief Engineers and / or their deputies go then LU could be in a right old mess when it comes to managing asset and project assurance and ensuring safety related signs off are in place (as required by external regulators and the Safety Certificate). [I'm assuming here that there hasn't been substantive change to assurance and sign off requirements over the last 5 years]
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 8, 2017 21:40:45 GMT
Ah I get it now. At first I thought pay band 1 was the highest. Don't know why! Do these pay bands apply to all LU staff or just the management side of it? They certainly applied to me when I was a senior manager at LU. We were later TUPE-d into TfL where we had no choice but to move or else we dismissed ourselves. Don't you just love reorganisations? Clearly they are going for management levels to try to strip out higher salary and pension costs. Last year's Annual Report and Accounts was like reading a "Director's Death List" - so many of them have been booted out, no doubt with reasonably handsome payoffs. So glad I walked in 2012 and have avoided however many rounds of job re-application and assessment that have been foisted on people. I suspect HR is the only department that is being run off their feet at the moment. Let's just hope that they have managed to get some sort of decent succession planning in place in Engineering. If a lot of the old LU Chief Engineers and / or their deputies go then LU could be in a right old mess when it comes to managing asset and project assurance and ensuring safety related signs off are in place (as required by external regulators and the Safety Certificate). [I'm assuming here that there hasn't been substantive change to assurance and sign off requirements over the last 5 years] Yeh, just like the Civil Service back in 2006/7, when I was trying to get out early. They started by trying to cull an entire grade SEO's, if I remember ie Senior Executive Officer, three grades up the managerial conga-reel, then luckily, by end of 2008, came down to plankton like me at EO level, as it cost less, or so they reckoned, until they encountered me, still a union rep & dedicated to fighting for my colleagues regarding each and every reserved right etc. agreed to by Senior Management in the last four millenia. The only question now is who misses who the most. I'll give you a guess..............
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Post by snoggle on Nov 9, 2017 0:30:34 GMT
then luckily, by end of 2008, came down to plankton like me at EO level, as it cost less, or so they reckoned, until they encountered me, still a union rep & dedicated to fighting for my colleagues regarding each and every reserved right etc. agreed to by Senior Management in the last four millenia. The only question now is who misses who the most. I'll give you a guess.............. I bet the HR people just lurved you!! Did you make sure you stood away from the platform edge when commuting and avoided people with long brolleys? "Hello is that MI5?, Kill him, just get rid of him, I don't care how you do it" (allegedly) said the Head of HR.
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Post by theblackferret on Nov 9, 2017 9:34:47 GMT
then luckily, by end of 2008, came down to plankton like me at EO level, as it cost less, or so they reckoned, until they encountered me, still a union rep & dedicated to fighting for my colleagues regarding each and every reserved right etc. agreed to by Senior Management in the last four millenia. The only question now is who misses who the most. I'll give you a guess.............. I bet the HR people just lurved you!! Did you make sure you stood away from the platform edge when commuting and avoided people with long brolleys? "Hello is that MI5?, Kill him, just get rid of him, I don't care how you do it" (allegedly) said the Head of HR. Unfortunately, this was in Plymouth, not renowned for its' metro! However, I did make sure my visits to the canteen for morning & afternoon cappuccinos were at irregular intervals-I'd watched enough Untouchables as a lad to know once 'they' realise you're a creature of habit, anything can happen!
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Nov 9, 2017 19:30:45 GMT
In some commercial organisations, some people are paid ABOVE the pay bands. It's so that the monkeys never easily find out how much the organ grinders are getting. The expression "off the scale" applies to those at the very top, where, sometimes, monthly cheques are obscene. All done "by negotiation" via head hunting recruitment organisations, sometimes via offshore companies as in the news very recently
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Tom
Administrator
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Post by Tom on Nov 9, 2017 21:43:31 GMT
In some commercial organisations, some people are paid ABOVE the pay bands. It happens within TfL and LU too.
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Post by br7mt on Nov 10, 2017 12:02:23 GMT
Most of the Discipline and Senior Discipline Engineers are in Band 3 and I wouldn't describe that as 'middle management'.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by peterc on Nov 10, 2017 12:31:18 GMT
In some commercial organisations, some people are paid ABOVE the pay bands. It's so that the monkeys never easily find out how much the organ grinders are getting. The expression "off the scale" applies to those at the very top, where, sometimes, monthly cheques are obscene. All done "by negotiation" via head hunting recruitment organisations, sometimes via offshore companies as in the news very recently Always strange how pay scales seemed to be rigid and immutable for some and purely advisory if your face fitted. In my last job I ended up taking a downgrading to avoid redundancy which left me "overscale" and I spent the next few years without rises. In theory I should have had a pay cut with a modest lump sum to "compensate" but our HR department couldn't cope with all the redundancies and missed me.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Nov 10, 2017 15:16:03 GMT
In some commercial organisations, some people are paid ABOVE the pay bands. It's so that the monkeys never easily find out how much the organ grinders are getting. The expression "off the scale" applies to those at the very top, where, sometimes, monthly cheques are obscene. All done "by negotiation" via head hunting recruitment organisations, sometimes via offshore companies as in the news very recently Always strange how pay scales seemed to be rigid and immutable for some and purely advisory if your face fitted. In my last job I ended up taking a downgrading to avoid redundancy which left me "overscale" and I spent the next few years without rises. In theory I should have had a pay cut with a modest lump sum to "compensate" but our HR department couldn't cope with all the redundancies and missed me. Pay is a right mess in many management roles within LU. There can be vast differences between people doing the exact same job role, all to do with past history than current performance / ability / competence. DTSM was an example in point. At the same depot you could have some on c.£55k, whilst there could be someone red-circled on c.£70+k. Not value for money for the farepayer/taxpayer, and not good for staff morale either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 18:16:58 GMT
The joys of performance related pay or aka PRP
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