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Post by patrickb on Dec 15, 2017 4:23:26 GMT
What scratches my head, is the lack of interest to preserve an entire set of what is a fairly unique piece of Heritage. Yes, repeatedly, the argument has been made that neither LU or LTM have expressed interest in preserving a working car set. It shocks me to believe however that not even at least 1 other DM and two T's could be donated to private owners.
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
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Post by a60 on Dec 15, 2017 7:27:47 GMT
The excuse given on another forum is that LUL do not wish to sell to private owners due to asbestos contamination. Avoiding litigation and all that lark.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 7:30:34 GMT
I understand it's all over, that the RAT went out with a premature bang. One way trip to Booth's for 5110 and 5234? I see from Flickr that 5113 is still in existence as of a few days ago, albeit in Rotherham. Anyone know of when the units will leave LU metals? I saw a report of a flashed over Motor but would that cause it to be scrapped?
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 15, 2017 7:37:23 GMT
I understand it's all over, that the RAT went out with a premature bang. One way trip to Booth's for 5110 and 5234? I see from Flickr that 5113 is still in existence as of a few days ago, albeit in Rotherham. Anyone know of when the units will leave LU metals? I saw a report of a flashed over Motor but would that cause it to be scrapped? I assume that would depend on the cost of repair and whether it was deemed value for money.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 15, 2017 7:55:11 GMT
I saw a report of a flashed over Motor but would that cause it to be scrapped? Just 6 days left on its ‘official’ end date of 21st December.
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
Posts: 743
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Post by a60 on Dec 15, 2017 8:00:44 GMT
Well, as I understand it, there are no plans to preserve anything of them apart from car 5034. The leaf fall season ends soon if I’m not much mistaken, and the D78 RAT stands ready to take over from next year.
So I presume that it is all over for the A60’s now, save for a final trip to Northwood or Acton.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 15, 2017 8:23:09 GMT
So I presume that it is all over for the A60’s now, save for a final trip to Northwood or Acton. Likely to be Ealing Common early in the New Year. It’s a shame that car 6036 couldn’t be paired with 5034 in the Museum Depot in its current un-refurbished condition, without the Sandite hoppers
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 15, 2017 8:42:42 GMT
Well, as I understand it, there are no plans to preserve anything of them apart from car 5034. The leaf fall season ends soon if I’m not much mistaken, and the D78 RAT stands ready to take over from next year. So I presume that it is all over for the A60’s now, save for a final trip to Northwood or Acton.
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Post by allan60 on Dec 15, 2017 13:51:00 GMT
Do you think there is any hope of persuading them to keep one for heritage runs? It's such a shame to let a piece of history be destroyed after more than 55 years 😥
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 15, 2017 14:11:05 GMT
Do you think there is any hope of persuading them to keep one for heritage runs? It's such a shame to let a piece of history be destroyed after more than 55 years 😥 I may be wrong here but once the current SSR becomes fully automatic train operation like the Northern, Jubilee, Central and Victoria lines are it will become very difficult to run trains that don't have the correct equipment to read the track signals. That would mean the A60 was restricted to some areas of the non automatic Piccadilly Line where it currently is in gauge but eventually, even this will disappear. I suppose the same is true of the other heritage stock. At least you have a museum piece to visit at Acton from time to time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 15:01:06 GMT
I believe ALL A stock cars (except the one kept in the museum) were sold to the scrap dealer. This included the the sandite units.
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Post by miff on Dec 15, 2017 15:23:15 GMT
Is the DRAT ready to take over?
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Post by domh245 on Dec 15, 2017 16:44:16 GMT
Is the DRAT ready to take over? The District Line doesn't have a RAT But you would hope that the D-Stock RAT will be ready within 9 months.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 18:30:34 GMT
Is the DRAT ready to take over? The District Line doesn't have a RAT But you would hope that the D-Stock RAT will be ready within 9 months. Both are/were ready. The first one was sent out once finished, and was used for a few training runs. It required some mods to be done, so has now returned back to TMU (Train modification unit) as the second one is complete and has gone to Neasden as standby. Now the A stock is out of the question, this is the one that will be used for the rest of the season. The reason the D78s have not been used much is that there are not many people trained on it. Finding the time to train drivers was hard coming up to sandite season.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 15, 2017 19:59:13 GMT
Convinced asbestos is a red herring, thought it was removed either at the refurb or before. Piers Connor would be the one to ask.
Its a very convenient excuse, asbestos contamination. No doubt many people would be pleased to see evidence to back up potentially dangerous contamination, worse than that of other vehicles from the mainline undergoing restoration in preservation.
Bottom line is you don't own heritage, you look after it for the next generation. WRT rolling stock, TfL doesnt seem to have a good record. The number of important/special/heritage vehicles scrapped since 2000 is rather shameful given other international metros willingness to capitalise on vehicle preservation for PR. I wish they'd remember that they'd make more money in the future from heritage runs than a stuffed exhibit in a museum, not to mention employee pride.
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Post by motorman on Dec 17, 2017 8:53:43 GMT
Was around the Eastcote area towards dusk yesterday afternoon. No sign of the A Stock RAT but the 3 car 73 Stock headed eastbound roughly in the timings scheduled for the A Stock. Was it just on Picc duties? Noted not many leaves left on the trees!!
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Post by MoreToJack on Dec 17, 2017 11:39:37 GMT
As noted, the A stock RAT has now finished for the season, and indeed forever, after developing a fault. The D78 replacement is not yet available.
The west end 73 stock RAT has been performing additional runs along the Uxbridge branch, in controller's timings, to minimise the risk of railhead contamination.
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Post by version3point1 on Dec 18, 2017 15:06:47 GMT
Convinced asbestos is a red herring, thought it was removed either at the refurb or before. Piers Connor would be the one to ask. Its a very convenient excuse, asbestos contamination. No doubt many people would be pleased to see evidence to back up potentially dangerous contamination, worse than that of other vehicles from the mainline undergoing restoration in preservation. Bottom line is you don't own heritage, you look after it for the next generation. WRT rolling stock, TfL doesnt seem to have a good record. The number of important/special/heritage vehicles scrapped since 2000 is rather shameful given other international metros willingness to capitalise on vehicle preservation for PR. I wish they'd remember that they'd make more money in the future from heritage runs than a stuffed exhibit in a museum, not to mention employee pride. A stock has been sold as of last month. We can’t afford the keep/maintain them and the LTM can’t exactly afford it either. We’ll all moan about how “shameful” it is, but at the end of the day, you have to look at how much has been descoped out of projects because of cost. I don’t know where people get this idea that we “make money” out of heritage events, because we don’t. When you take into account the running costs and getting staff to run the train, the consultation that needs to take place to implement the OSP; heritage runs just about break even.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Dec 18, 2017 17:54:06 GMT
Convinced asbestos is a red herring, thought it was removed either at the refurb or before. Piers Connor would be the one to ask. Its a very convenient excuse, asbestos contamination. No doubt many people would be pleased to see evidence to back up potentially dangerous contamination, worse than that of other vehicles from the mainline undergoing restoration in preservation. Bottom line is you don't own heritage, you look after it for the next generation. WRT rolling stock, TfL doesnt seem to have a good record. The number of important/special/heritage vehicles scrapped since 2000 is rather shameful given other international metros willingness to capitalise on vehicle preservation for PR. I wish they'd remember that they'd make more money in the future from heritage runs than a stuffed exhibit in a museum, not to mention employee pride. A stock has been sold as of last month. We can’t afford the keep/maintain them and the LTM can’t exactly afford it either. We’ll all moan about how “shameful” it is, but at the end of the day, you have to look at how much has been descoped out of projects because of cost. I don’t know where people get this idea that we “make money” out of heritage events, because we don’t. When you take into account the running costs and getting staff to run the train, the consultation that needs to take place to implement the OSP; heritage runs just about break even. One presumes at least part of the issue is Acton has got to the point where it's now quite short of space. If one works on the basis that LU isn't quite so cash-strapped that it's relying on the scrap value of four cars, otherwise they could at least stick a unit at Acton, under cover, and keep it in as-is condition so that at least the opportunity is there for the future. It's a shame the two units couldn't just have been kept going as rail adhesion trains, but it's understandable that the D stock is preferable.
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Post by alholmes on Dec 18, 2017 20:51:27 GMT
What date was the final day that the A stock worked? I saw it on the 8th, so looks as though it was between 8th and 14th.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 18, 2017 22:10:58 GMT
What date was the final day that the A stock worked? I saw it on the 8th, so looks as though it was between 8th and 14th. Monday 11 December... when the snow was relatively fresh...
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 19, 2017 1:18:08 GMT
Convinced asbestos is a red herring, thought it was removed either at the refurb or before. Piers Connor would be the one to ask. Its a very convenient excuse, asbestos contamination. No doubt many people would be pleased to see evidence to back up potentially dangerous contamination, worse than that of other vehicles from the mainline undergoing restoration in preservation. Bottom line is you don't own heritage, you look after it for the next generation. WRT rolling stock, TfL doesnt seem to have a good record. The number of important/special/heritage vehicles scrapped since 2000 is rather shameful given other international metros willingness to capitalise on vehicle preservation for PR. I wish they'd remember that they'd make more money in the future from heritage runs than a stuffed exhibit in a museum, not to mention employee pride. A stock has been sold as of last month. We can’t afford the keep/maintain them and the LTM can’t exactly afford it either. We’ll all moan about how “shameful” it is, but at the end of the day, you have to look at how much has been descoped out of projects because of cost. I don’t know where people get this idea that we “make money” out of heritage events, because we don’t. When you take into account the running costs and getting staff to run the train, the consultation that needs to take place to implement the OSP; heritage runs just about break even. Whereas I respect your learned view from inside the organisation, Anne, I must respectfully disagree with the thrust of your post. Just because LUL/TfL can't afford it does not mean to say that someone else could not. As for 'make money', I don't think anyone is under the impression that heritage is profitable as a strictly business proposition, rather, that it is less unprofitable to have something that can have a means of its own income attached to it through tours or the like, rather than having to rely on a cut of admission fees from admission to a storage place. If there was ever any serious traction within LUL to preserve a set, or perhaps more important, seek external partners or owners for such in the name of preservation it would be great to know, and change the otherwise pessimistic tone I took. However, surely you must appreciate that the feeling among many people connected with the tube, both inside and out, was that it was internal apathy that ultimately did in any prospect of preservation. Please, tell me I am wrong. It would be good to know that LUL did as much as possible to find a group to look after it when they realised they could not afford it themselves? I just don't see it though. The COP stock, the Q stock, the 59ts (to name some) were all offered to private buyers. Was the A stock, or the C stock, ever offered to any group/individual other than a scrappage firm?
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Post by miff on Dec 19, 2017 17:07:08 GMT
A stock has been sold as of last month. We can’t afford the keep/maintain them and the LTM can’t exactly afford it either. We’ll all moan about how “shameful” it is, but at the end of the day, you have to look at how much has been descoped out of projects because of cost. I don’t know where people get this idea that we “make money” out of heritage events, because we don’t. When you take into account the running costs and getting staff to run the train, the consultation that needs to take place to implement the OSP; heritage runs just about break even. Whereas I respect your learned view from inside the organisation, Anna, I must respectfully disagree with the thrust of your post. Just because LUL/TfL can't afford it does not mean to say that someone else could not. As for 'make money', I don't think anyone is under the impression that heritage is profitable as a strictly business proposition, rather, that it is less unprofitable to have something that can have a means of its own income attached to it through tours or the like, rather than having to rely on a cut of admission fees from admission to a storage place. If there was ever any serious traction within LUL to preserve a set, or perhaps more important, seek external partners or owners for such in the name of preservation it would be great to know, and change the otherwise pessimistic tone I took. However, surely you must appreciate that the feeling among many people connected with the tube, both inside and out, was that it was internal apathy that ultimately did in any prospect of preservation. Please, tell me I am wrong. It would be good to know that LUL did as much as possible to find a group to look after it when they realised they could not afford it themselves? I just don't see it though. The COP stock, the Q stock, the 59ts (to name some) were all offered to private buyers. Was the A stock, or the C stock, ever offered to any group/individual other than a scrappage firm? Has any serious offer to preserve an A stock been turned down?
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 19, 2017 17:09:33 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 9:23:38 GMT
Is the spare still at Acton ?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 20, 2017 9:48:19 GMT
Is the spare still at Acton ? Departed from Acton Works on 6 June. All other redundant Stock cars (‘62, ‘67, ‘72) were removed around the same time.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 9:54:14 GMT
Sounds like the redevelopment work is going ahead then
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 20, 2017 10:13:52 GMT
Sounds like the redevelopment work is going ahead then Yes certainly, all sidings (except 28 29) were lifted soon after the cars were removed and building AC(?) demolished.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 13:21:06 GMT
Sounds like the redevelopment work is going ahead then Yes certainly, all sidings (except 28 29) were lifted soon after the cars were removed and building AC(?) demolished. Correct. It is now just a huge pit with the building work starting in the new year apparently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 14:30:32 GMT
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