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Post by q8 on Aug 1, 2005 7:19:44 GMT
 There are certain places on the LUL system where the track is such the trains protest when traversing them. The top of Bow Bank for instance. "D" stocks don't like it there and go round the corner in a series of jerks and jolts. Another place that comes to mind used to be exiting the tunnel mouth at Leyton. 62's hated that climb up the hill and used to bounce about like rubber balls. Mind you the Central line track in the open in those days was bloody appalling. Where else do trains "have a pop" nowadays?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2005 9:06:45 GMT
Both C and D stocks make a horrendous noise (and sometimes juddering) on the curve just west of East Putney, heading towards the tunnel. I had a passenger asking me about it recently at Wimbledon! Anyone know why it's so bad?
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Post by russe on Aug 1, 2005 12:19:55 GMT
The running rails through Bank station were experimentally heat-treated with a nickel-based coating a few years back, which was very successful in reducing the flange squealing through the station. Don't know whether the coating has been re-applied since.
Russ
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2005 12:27:03 GMT
S/b from Golders Green to Hampstead used to be pretty hair-raising, especially over the x/over just before Hampstead. North of Golders used to be bad too, as well as Barnet to Totteridge...
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Post by orienteer on Aug 1, 2005 12:49:26 GMT
The Met northbound through Neasden Station was the worst I experienced. used to feel as though the train would derail. Eventually the points into Neasden Depot were removed from the Met line, presumably because of the disturbance.
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Post by Christopher J on Aug 1, 2005 18:51:26 GMT
The points just before Plaistow E/B - They chuck a few punters about! ;D Has anybody noticed that as you leave Farringdon Inner Rail (I've noticed the Met A Stocks are less prone to it) as C Stocks motor cross over the points there's lots of arcing and smoke and all of a sudden a huge 'POP!' from the Line Breakers which throws the Train forward, scared the living daylights out of me the first time it happened to a Circle Line service I was onboard. Has something happened to those points? As I'm sure this only started happening recently, I've been over the points many times in the past and nothing of this nature has happened, only until a few months ago C stocks have seemed to start doing this.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2005 19:40:40 GMT
Ha! try a C stocker in full parallel going across baker st jct towards Kings X. Lots of arcing, blue flashes and a really lively ride. ;D
Once on the Central, I had the train in Manual [defect book mentioned something about an ATO defect], merrily running towards Holborn w/b, stopped and theres this rather timid knock on the J door, me pops it open and not expecting the response I got: Can't you drive this f**kin' train properly? We're bein' thrown about in ere'. says he. Sorry sir, I'll drive more catuiously over that section in future, says I
Feeling rather peeved at having my head bitten off, I put the train into restricted, and we had a rather lesuirely ride to TCR. This bloke gets off, looks into the cab thru the side door and walks off! Operator 1, punter 0.
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Post by citysig on Aug 1, 2005 21:35:05 GMT
Ha! try a C stocker in full parallel going across baker st jct towards Kings X. Lots of arcing, blue flashes and a really lively ride. ;D You were lucky that day. Most of the time they crawl out of there and quite often come close to grinding to a halt. Never lively (apart from my language when I'm trying to get to the 'cross for my train home). |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 2, 2005 2:36:16 GMT
Both C and D stocks make a horrendous noise (and sometimes juddering) on the curve just west of East Putney, heading towards the tunnel. I had a passenger asking me about it recently at Wimbledon! Anyone know why it's so bad? I had a P-way bloke in the cab some time ago. He said the track was 'corrugated', a condition caused by expansion in hot weather, where there is no allowance for the rail to actually expand. It's worse at this particular location because of the tight curvature. Apparently, as usual with these things, LUL says it's Network rail's fault (as the maintainer), Network rail says if you want it fixed - you pay (LUL is the owner). So it might get sorted one day - I wouldn't hold your breath though!!  |
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Post by q8 on Aug 2, 2005 6:45:48 GMT
I had a P-way bloke in the cab some time ago. He said the track was 'corrugated', a condition caused by expansion in hot weather, where there is no allowance for the rail to actually expand.
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Well AFAIAA LUL has a rail grinder to remove corrugations so what's wrong with sending it down the on a couple of nights to remove said defect?
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Post by piccadillypilot on Aug 2, 2005 7:58:08 GMT
Well AFAIAA LUL has a rail grinder to remove corrugations so what's wrong with sending it down the on a couple of nights to remove said defect? But what happens when the track cools down again? |
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Post by q8 on Aug 2, 2005 9:40:15 GMT
But what happens when the track cools down again?
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That is when the corrugations occur. Obviously when the rack warms up it expands and normally there are gaps or joints to allow for this. Where they are not present one of two things happen. The track either buckels or "Humps". With humping it stays true to gauge but tries to make a hill of itself. Safe to run over however.
Now when it cools down again the top cools faster than the bottom and like the skin on a rice pudden you get wrinkles. The wrinkles are the corrugations that make the noise and can only be removed by grinding.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 2, 2005 12:07:35 GMT
Like I say, that particlar section is owned by LUL, but maintained by Network Rail.
LUL says Network Rail installed the track incorrectly by not allowing for expansion, so it should sort it. Network Rail says they got it right in the first place, so if you want it fixed it will cost ya.
Like Q8 says, the track remains in gauge and is considered safe - until that changes, I can't see much being done about it.
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Post by chrisr on Aug 2, 2005 21:26:15 GMT
you should try riding double deck trains over pointwork in holland....the number of times i've thought they're about to jump off a set of points....pretty nasty, bad ride, lots of very big grinding noises....not just your normal squeals, i dread to think how much it wears the gauge corners & wheels down.....really nasty trains compared with a pendolino or even a c stock!!
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Post by q8 on Aug 6, 2005 4:59:21 GMT
you should try riding double deck trains over pointwork in holland....the number of times i've thought they're about to jump off a set of points....pretty nasty, bad ride, lots of very big grinding noises....not just your normal squeals, i dread to think how much it wears the gauge corners & wheels down.....really nasty trains compared with a pendolino or even a c stock!!
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Centre of gravity must be too high.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 6, 2005 12:11:43 GMT
Gents
One thing I have noticed is that slithers of metal at the edge of rails appear to have come away and hang in mid-air tentatively connected - one location is Hornchurch on the westbound platform adjacent to the waiting room - if anyone is there study the rails (if my memory serves me right its the offside rail in particular) walking towards London (obviously don't walk beyond/outside the public area)
I take it that constant use grinds the rails causing these slithers (as I've christened them) to come away - is this a sign that the rails are starting to fail and need replacement??
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Post by chrisr on Aug 6, 2005 16:09:18 GMT
Centre of gravity must be too high. Q8, i think they also take points at excessive speed...possibly they dont have sufficient flange lubrication in place either? i seem to recall this was an issue (or at least suggested) in the recent(ish) northern line derailment whenever it was? |
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Post by q8 on Aug 6, 2005 16:53:39 GMT
Gents
One thing I have noticed is that slithers of metal at the edge of rails appear to have come away and hang in mid-air tentatively connected - one location is Hornchurch on the westbound platform adjacent to the waiting room - if anyone is there study the rails (if my memory serves me right its the offside rail in particular) walking towards London (obviously don't walk beyond/outside the public area)
I take it that constant use grinds the rails causing these slithers (as I've christened them) to come away - is this a sign that the rails are starting to fail and need replacement??
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Those slithers of metal are called scaling and are the bane of an AET's life as they are attracted to blockjoints if near one and cause track circuit failures if they come adrift. Normally they will drop onto the track. It's not a sign of rail failure just normal wear and tear from flanges of new or worn profiles.
Sometimes however the strips you can see are not in fact metal but grease from lubricators. Mostly at the end of bends or curves. This grease gets compacted and looks for all the world like a metal strip which also drops off after a while.
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There are certain places on the LUL system where the track is such the trains protest when traversing them. The top of Bow Bank for instance. "D" stocks don't like it there and go round the corner in a series of jerks and jolts. 
