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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 8:39:17 GMT
The Evening Standard are reporting that at approx 09:00 this morning, fire crews were called to Oxford Circus due to reports of smoke from a Bakerloo line train on a Northbound service. The station was evacuated, Central and Victoria line services were not stopping and the Bakerloo was initially suspended (09:15) between Piccadilly Circus and Elephant & Castle with no service south of Paddington as of 09:30.   |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 11, 2017 8:55:03 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 11, 2017 9:36:56 GMT
Bakerloo service resumed 10.30 .
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 11, 2017 9:45:15 GMT
Possibly a flashover similar to the one at Holland Park in 2013
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Post by robv on Aug 11, 2017 10:01:29 GMT
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cso
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Post by cso on Aug 11, 2017 10:13:19 GMT
From Facebook:
"Here's our response to the incident on a Bakerloo line train at Oxford Circus this morning:
Nigel Holness, London Underground’s Director of Network Operations said:
“At around 8:50am our staff were alerted to reports of smoke on a Bakerloo train approaching Oxford Circus. Our staff immediately contacted the emergency services, who quickly attended, and ensured customers left the train and exited the station. The cause of the smoke was an electrical fault under one of the carriages, which resulted in a small fire that was quickly extinguished. Understandably this was a distressing incident for our customers, for which I give my sincere apologies. A comprehensive investigation into how this incident could have occurred is now underway. Our Sarah Hope Line, which is set up to help those affected by incidents on the transport network, is also available to offer support. ”"
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 11, 2017 11:10:18 GMT
An incident like this on the approach to a station is almost always going to be easier for evacuation purposes than one that develops after the doors have closed and the train has started to move off (as happened at Holland Park), but it looks like this incident was handled better than that on the Central line.
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Post by trt on Aug 11, 2017 11:14:16 GMT
Look at those muppets standing around on the platform. "When's the next non-smoking train? I have to get to work!"
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Post by Chris M on Aug 11, 2017 14:29:18 GMT
Look at those muppets standing around on the platform. "When's the next non-smoking train? I have to get to work!" Pound to a penny there were some people who tried to board the train. Hopefully just the non-smoking bits, but I'm not going to bet my life savings on that! |
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cso
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Post by cso on Aug 11, 2017 15:02:58 GMT
Look at those muppets standing around on the platform. I'm sort of reminded of goo.gl/images/K7Xnry with this photo... I'm just glad I work from home on a Friday or I'd have quite likely been involved in this incident. |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 11, 2017 15:24:26 GMT
There was a Northern line train at Tottenham Court Road yesterday that had what looked like smoke coming from it. It had the brake dust smell, but seemed much worse than usual to the point where the station tunnel was full of it. One of my fellow passengers reported it on the help point, but was told it was OK. Whether the train was checked further down the line I can't say.
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 11, 2017 15:58:55 GMT
There was a Northern line train at Tottenham Court Road yesterday that had what looked like smoke coming from it. It had the brake dust smell, but seemed much worse than usual to the point where the station tunnel was full of it. One of my fellow passengers reported it on the help point, but was told it was OK. Whether the train was checked further down the line I can't say. This isn't unknown if the brakes are dragging or if there's been some harder applications than usual (all singing, all dancing SelTrac again...). It should get reported to the control centre at Highgate for the train techs to look into, but sadly a lot of station staff will fob people off. It's just as frustrating for us as staff as it is for the customers! Anyway... getting off topic now. A friend was stuck behind the incident train and it produced some interesting moves, with an emergency timetable running for much of the day. The cause (I am told; it's in the public domain) was faulty wiring under a set of seats. |
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Post by domh245 on Aug 11, 2017 17:10:24 GMT
Anyway... getting off topic now. A friend was stuck behind the incident train and it produced some interesting moves, with an emergency timetable running for much of the day. The cause (I am told; it's in the public domain) was faulty wiring under a set of seats. Unrelated to the refurbishments that are being done at present? Usually the worst times for "severe faults" like these to happen is just after refurbishment, as was recently demonstrated by a class 319 unit that caught fire at St Helens not long after entering service following a refurbishment. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 18:22:55 GMT
Anything to do with worn out 1972 trains by any chance? (They are the oldest passenger trains on the Tube system now).
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Post by jamesb on Aug 11, 2017 22:15:25 GMT
I'm curious that there is more smoke inside the carriage in the pictures than there is coming from underneath the carriage up the outside of the train. I always thought that passengers inside a carriage are relatively protected, and on the Bakerloo line the ?extractor fans are in the ceiling, and the vents above the seats. The floor must be 'fire resistant'. So how can there be more smoke inside the carriage than on the outside, if the problem was underneath the train? It would make sense for the smoke to find a way out around the outside of the train under the carriage, rather than directly into the passenger compartment?
It appears to be a fog of 'acrid smoke' rather than thick black clouds of smoke billowing up into the station, and there is no sign of fire in any of the pictures. Something electrical smouldering underneath?
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Post by superteacher on Aug 11, 2017 22:25:52 GMT
I'm curious that there is more smoke inside the carriage in the pictures than there is coming from underneath the carriage up the outside of the train. I always thought that passengers inside a carriage are relatively protected, and on the Bakerloo line the ?extractor fans are in the ceiling, and the vents above the seats. The floor must be 'fire resistant'. So how can there be more smoke inside the carriage than on the outside, if the problem was underneath the train? It would make sense for the smoke to find a way out around the outside of the train under the carriage, rather than directly into the passenger compartment? It appears to be a fog of 'acrid smoke' rather than thick black clouds of smoke billowing up into the station, and there is no sign of fire in any of the pictures. Something electrical smouldering underneath? It's always a good idea to read the other posts on a thread before you post. Then you will see the reason behind the fire has already been stated. As for the fans, are they extractors? I thought they would bring air into the carriages to aid ventilation. |
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Post by scheduler on Aug 11, 2017 22:32:04 GMT
I'm curious that there is more smoke inside the carriage in the pictures than there is coming from underneath the carriage up the outside of the train. I always thought that passengers inside a carriage are relatively protected, and on the Bakerloo line the ?extractor fans are in the ceiling, and the vents above the seats. The floor must be 'fire resistant'. So how can there be more smoke inside the carriage than on the outside, if the problem was underneath the train? It would make sense for the smoke to find a way out around the outside of the train under the carriage, rather than directly into the passenger compartment? It appears to be a fog of 'acrid smoke' rather than thick black clouds of smoke billowing up into the station, and there is no sign of fire in any of the pictures. Something electrical smouldering underneath? My conjecture is it is worn wiring sparking somewhere beneath seats. There's a lot of clever stuff underneath the seats in the Bakerloo trains. Either way - scary scenes, since I use this line every day to get to work. I hope that this weekend the spare trains left in depots will get a very thorough wiring check. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 11, 2017 22:38:23 GMT
There was a Northern line train at Tottenham Court Road yesterday that had what looked like smoke coming from it. It had the brake dust smell, but seemed much worse than usual to the point where the station tunnel was full of it. One of my fellow passengers reported it on the help point, but was told it was OK. Whether the train was checked further down the line I can't say. It should get reported to the control centre at Highgate for the train techs to look into, but sadly a lot of station staff will fob people off. It's just as frustrating for us as staff as it is for the customers. Pardon? Could you expand on that? Bit of a generalisation there. You were Station staff yourself not so long ago. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 11, 2017 23:29:35 GMT
It should get reported to the control centre at Highgate for the train techs to look into, but sadly a lot of station staff will fob people off. It's just as frustrating for us as staff as it is for the customers. Pardon? Could you expand on that? Bit of a generalisation there. You were Station staff yourself not so long ago. I know of numerous incidents where I or others have reported things up the chain and they haven't been passed through to the control centre. There's a lot of good staff out there but equally there's a lot who won't do anything that causes them more work. It would be inappropriate for me to elaborate on this further in a public forum, but it certainly isn't an overgeneralisation based on my experiences *on stations*. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 11, 2017 23:39:04 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you mainly based at one station? So therefore the lax attitude you describe was a local issue, rather than the generalisation you've painted?
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Post by trt on Aug 12, 2017 7:32:41 GMT
Given that it was a Bakerloo Line train, one wag suggested the 'smoke' was due to someone whacking the seating really hard..
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Post by t697 on Aug 12, 2017 9:37:06 GMT
As for the fans, are they extractors? I thought they would bring air into the carriages to aid ventilation. On 1972TS the ceiling fans are extractors. The idea is to draw air in through the ventilator slots, gaps round sliding doors, end door droplight windows etc. and out through the roof. Whichever way such a fan blows, there has to be a return air path as well! Based on my limited understanding of this incident, even if the fans were running I doubt they would make a significant difference to the outcome. |
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Post by jamesb on Aug 12, 2017 10:55:44 GMT
As for the fans, are they extractors? I thought they would bring air into the carriages to aid ventilation. On 1972TS the ceiling fans are extractors. The idea is to draw air in through the ventilator slots, gaps round sliding doors, end door droplight windows etc. and out through the roof. Whichever way such a fan blows, there has to be a return air path as well! Based on my limited understanding of this incident, even if the fans were running I doubt they would make a significant difference to the outcome. Makes sense, as if hot air rises, air coming into the carriage from the roof would just displace the hot air downwards. I have read that the ceiling fans on the 73TS are extractors too. |
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Post by North End on Aug 12, 2017 10:58:40 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you mainly based at one station? So therefore the lax attitude you describe was a local issue, rather than the generalisation you've painted? Anyone ignoring any report that reaches them via a recorded means (e.g. Connect radio, and (?) help points) would be risking themselves landing in hot water should an incident subsequently occur and thus come to light. I find it difficult to believe staff would ignore such reports - but then I don't work on stations. It can be a nuisance when a report comes through, especially as it's common to get burning smells when friction brakes heat up. Personally I hate to withdraw a train from service unless there's some other symptom, but equally one has to err on the side of caution and remember that a burning smell isn't always brake related, it could be a hot axle box for example. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 11:00:21 GMT
I'm curious that there is more smoke inside the carriage in the pictures than there is coming from underneath the carriage up the outside of the train. I always thought that passengers inside a carriage are relatively protected, and on the Bakerloo line the ?extractor fans are in the ceiling, and the vents above the seats. The floor must be 'fire resistant'. So how can there be more smoke inside the carriage than on the outside, if the problem was underneath the train? It would make sense for the smoke to find a way out around the outside of the train under the carriage, rather than directly into the passenger compartment? It appears to be a fog of 'acrid smoke' rather than thick black clouds of smoke billowing up into the station, and there is no sign of fire in any of the pictures. Something electrical smouldering underneath? Well judging by the second photo, the smoke is coming from a UNDM (Uncoupling Non-Driving-Motor-Car) or DM (Driving-Motor-Car) which means that there is equipment located under the transverse seats. If faulty wiring on these pieces of equipment was the cause then the smoke would rise up into the saloon as it isn't located in the undercarriage as is the case with more modern tube stock. This video showing the assembly of the mechanically similar 1967 stock trains for the Victoria line show the compact arrangements in motorised cars. |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 12, 2017 12:54:04 GMT
Unrelated to the refurbishments that are being done at present? Usually the worst times for "severe faults" like these to happen is just after refurbishment, as was recently demonstrated by a class 319 unit that caught fire at St Helens not long after entering service following a refurbishment. Reported elsewhere that the train was one that has not yet been refurbished, so it seems unlikely to be connected with that. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 12, 2017 15:18:28 GMT
Well judging by the second photo, the smoke is coming from a UNDM (Uncoupling Non-Driving-Motor-Car) or NDM (Non-Driving-Motor-Car) There are no NDMs in 1972 stock other than UNDMs, they are formed DM-T-T-DM + UNDM-T-DM, although the cabs in the middle DMs are never used now as the units always run that way round. I can't see enough to tell from the still photos, but The BBC footage shows car no 3237 at the rear (south end) of the train and the fire appears to be in the third or fourth car along, which would be, respectively, trailer 4337 and middle DM 3337. If any of the interior shots show a J door* (i.e without a droplight) that would positively identify the middle DM. *I think I mean J door - the one from the saloon into the cab |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 16:01:26 GMT
Well judging by the second photo, the smoke is coming from a UNDM (Uncoupling Non-Driving-Motor-Car) or NDM (Non-Driving-Motor-Car) There are no NDMs in 1972 stock other than UNDMs, they are formed DM-T-T-DM + UNDM-T-DM, although the cabs in the middle DMs are never used now as the units always run that way round. I can't see enough to tell from the still photos, but The BBC footage shows car no 3237 at the rear (south end) of the train and the fire appears to be in the third or fourth car along, which would be, respectively, trailer 4337 and middle DM 3337. If any of the interior shots show a J door* (i.e without a droplight) that would positively identify the middle DM. *I think I mean J door - the one from the saloon into the cab Sorry, Im getting my acronyms mixed up again, edit on it's way. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Aug 15, 2017 10:50:07 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Aug 15, 2017 10:58:08 GMT
I was on the Picc heading into town from Heathrow when that was happening. Full credit to the driver for trying to keep us informed, but by the sounds of it he was only getting bits and pieces of information that didn't make complete sense to him from control (or whoever is meant to supply that information). First of all it was just Piccadilly line not stopping at Holbon in either direction due to overcrowding, then a couple of stations later it was just the Central line that was being non-stopped. Then it was no trains on either line are stopping at Holborn due to overcrowding "it sounds like there has been some sort of problem on the Central line, but I'll let you know anything else if they tell me"). As I got off at Green Park I half heard an announcement about a problem on the Central in the Ruislip area, which doesn't obviously seem likely to cause problems at Holborn in particular.
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