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Post by CSLR on Mar 22, 2006 14:20:57 GMT
Try this.
What contribution did the City & South London Railway make to the construction of the Moscow Metro, and how was that contribution recognised during the lifetime of virtually every member of this forum? There is a very big clue in there.
May I ask that all members please give Dmitri first go at this one. It will be interesting to see if he can come up with an answer from the recipient side. If anyone wants to PM comments to me in the meantime, please feel free to do so.
Note: I am certain that some of you actually witnessed the second part of this question, perhaps without even realising it!
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Post by CSLR on Mar 23, 2006 11:24:06 GMT
Try this. What contribution did the City & South London Railway make to the construction of the Moscow Metro, and how was that contribution recognised during the lifetime of virtually every member of this forum? There is a very big clue in there. May I ask that all members please give Dmitri first go at this one. Note: I am certain that some of you actually witnessed the second part of this question, perhaps without even realising it! I am now going to throw this open to everyone. Dmitri and I have exchanged some PMs and I think think that he has pretty much guessed what happened. In my opinion, this was pretty difficult as the official history does not seem to cover this point - you will see why when I give the answer. As for the second part of the question, I know that several members of this forum will have been in the right place at the right time to see what happened. David certainly was! Clues: Work out the date in the second part of the question, and everything will fall into place. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2006 13:33:27 GMT
Well, that doesn't exactly inspire the rest of us with a great deal of confidence  So I will simply make a WAG and say that one of the following's use by the C&SLR was employed by the Moscow Metro: - The Greathead shield - Traction technology - Signalling technology - Brake technology - C&W design - Hydraulic lifts |
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Post by CSLR on Mar 23, 2006 15:08:38 GMT
Well, that doesn't exactly inspire the rest of us with a great deal of confidence Be confident! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2006 20:56:55 GMT
I'll have a guess as my name has been mentioned - 1990 Tube Centenary?  |
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Post by CSLR on Mar 23, 2006 21:14:08 GMT
TOK is very warm with his choice of words. David is bang on with second part of the question.
Now, can anyone remember what they saw at Morden or on the centenary tour? And can anyone link this in with the remainder of the question?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2006 4:17:39 GMT
This is really frustrating. The Tube Centenary was just a guess. I just can't remember anything related to the Moscow system on dislay at Morden. Typical, I don't suppose there's anything in my Morden depot pics is there?
D
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Post by CSLR on Mar 24, 2006 12:57:21 GMT
This is really frustrating. The Tube Centenary was just a guess. I just can't remember anything related to the Moscow system on dislay at Morden. Typical, I don't suppose there's anything in my Morden depot pics is there? D There were definitely things there. I did not see anything in your pics David, but I know that other people took photographs of relevant material. |
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Post by CSLR on Mar 24, 2006 22:47:47 GMT
This is the answer to the first part of the question that I posed.
Although the Moscow Metro did not open until 1935, there had been earlier plans to contruct underground lines in the city. Between the end of the Crimean War and the 1917 revolution, Russia was exploring technologies from other countries and adopting these in an attempt to modernise itself. Late in 1894 the Russian Charge d'affaire contacted the UK Foreign Office to ask if arrangements could be made for Russian officials to inspect the City & South London Railway. The application makes it clear that they were interested in inspecting an electrical underground railway. The C&SLR was happy to welcome the guests and to demonstrate its operations and facilities to them.
Many of the papers relating to the visit have subsequently been lost or destroyed, but what remains suggests that this was an attempt to investigate the technology for possible use within the Russian capital. Eight years later, in 1902, Peter Balinsky put forward plans for the first subway in Moscow. It is uncertain whether he had access to the papers relating to the C&SLR inspection, but the timeframe suggests that he did.
Following complaints from tramcar shareholders and difficulties over the possible confiscation of land for railway use, Balinsky's scheme did not progress. It was not until the 1930s that the Stalin put his backing behind the building of the Metro and work finally began.
The Russian officials that visited the C&SLR in 1894 appear to have been the first official overseas delegation to look seriously at the technology with a view to replicating the system in their own country. This fact was celebrated during the 1990 Tube Centenary.
TOK and Dmitri both correctly suggested a technology connection between the two railways. Can anyone who was at the Tube Centenary remember what happened next?
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Post by CSLR on Mar 25, 2006 9:24:19 GMT
Dmitri has passed me some extremely interesting comments on this matter. He has pointed out that St Petersburg was the capital of Russia prior to WW1 and that this was also a factor in stifling early plans for a Moscow Metro. It also raises the question as to whether the information gleaned from the 1894 visit to the City & South London Railway may have been used in the 1899 proposal for a Metro system in St Petersburg? This seems to be a possibility as the UK Foreign Office papers clearly say that the visit was by 'Russian' officials.
For historical purposes I should clarify the fact that, while Peter Balinsky's 1902 proposal for a Moscow Metro is probably the best know, it is one of several plans. The scheme that almost made it was a 1912 project which was approved by the Municipal Council but which was shelved as Russia started plunging towards revolution.
May I publicly thank Dmitri for his tremendous input into this matter. There have been PMs flying backwards and forwards between us all week and he has given it a lot of thought, despite the fact that he has been extremely busy. What started out as a quiz to members has now added to my knowledge and given me a few new avenues to explore. Thanks Dmitri.
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Post by CSLR on Mar 31, 2006 11:35:06 GMT
I have received several PMs, a number of emails and have had a face-to-face meeting with one member of this forum. Noone can remember seeing anything during the Tube Centenary Celebrations at Morden relating to the Moscow Metro. I therefore think that it is time to tell you what those who were there may have seen - if they were looking.
For those who travelled on the centenary train tours, Paul (one of the guides) was wearing a genuine tube drivers uniform supplied by Moscow Metro for the purpose. Many of the passengers photographed him and remarked that he looked like an overdressed Victorian ship's captain. I would add that it is a strikingly impressive uniform.
Meanwhile, in the one of the large marquees in the depot there was a display of photographs and items supplied by Moscow Metro.
For the record, something else also happened that the vast majority of visitors would not have been aware of. There were a number of distinguished guests being guided around the trains and through the pits on the Sunday. These included a delegation from the Moscow Metro led by the then General Manager Evguein Dubchenko. Afterwards, the contribution made by the City & South London Railway to the planning of the Moscow Metro was recognised at a special meal in the depot hosted by the UITP (International Metropolitan Railways Committee).
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