Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on Mar 21, 2006 11:04:59 GMT
What's unusual about the infrastructure here?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2006 11:25:42 GMT
The signal hasn't got any pig's ears.
The signal has the S prefix, used throughout the Northern Line due to the violation of the IMR namespace regulations.
The trainstop is some kind of weird screwy doohickey that I've never seen before (but the AETs probably have).
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Post by CSLR on Mar 21, 2006 11:52:56 GMT
Interesting rail gap.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2006 12:48:27 GMT
Is it me or is that signal showing no aspect?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2006 13:20:11 GMT
You noticed that too huh? It seemed odd to me, but since I couldn't say why I didn't mention it.
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Post by CSLR on Mar 21, 2006 13:48:46 GMT
OneKEA wroteYou noticed that too huh? It seemed odd to me, but since I couldn't say why I didn't mention it. It would not be much fun being in the tunnel with 'juice-off' if a car passed across or became stuck on that gap. That is one reason why rail gaps were made the length that they are and also why SCDs had to be put down both ends of a train after current was discharged.
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Post by ikar on Mar 21, 2006 16:43:10 GMT
What is that between the tracks?
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Post by CSLR on Mar 21, 2006 16:45:53 GMT
What is that between the tracks? Which bit are you asking about ikar?
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Mar 21, 2006 17:27:48 GMT
Signal S415 has an electric trainstop.
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Post by ikar on Mar 21, 2006 19:12:23 GMT
Which bit are you asking about ikar? ---------------------------------
Just in front of the train and right to it. (looks like a carriage)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2006 19:25:05 GMT
A trolley for the P-way gangs to move heavy stuff I think. Something similar is used today.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2006 19:34:17 GMT
the S prefix was used as an automatic prefix for the northern line them trainstops were before my time but i think they nicked named them long toms
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on Mar 21, 2006 19:41:25 GMT
I think we have all the answers now.
Yes, the signal WAS an automatic, even with the 'S' prefix, as happened on the Northern.
Yes, the trainstop was an experimental electric one.
Yes the triangle of lights under the main head was a rail-gap indicator.
Yes, the trolley was a fairly standard PW trolley stored for use out of traffic hours.
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Mar 21, 2006 21:08:50 GMT
Yes, the trainstop was an experimental electric one. Except it wasn't an unusual feature north of Golders Green as all the trainstops were electrically operated, there being no air main. (GG to Edgware was the site Dell and Every used to compare 'all-electric' signalling to the Electro-Pneumatic system used elsewhere. EP won.)
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Mar 21, 2006 21:23:38 GMT
Yes, the trainstop was an experimental electric one. Except it wasn't an unusual feature north of Golders Green as all the trainstops were electrically operated, there being no air main. (GG to Edgware was the site Dell and Every used to compare 'all-electric' signalling to the Electro-Pneumatic system used elsewhere. EP won.) I have heard of Robert Dell, was Every his sidekick ?
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Tom
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Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Mar 21, 2006 21:35:54 GMT
No, Every was his predecessor and the man who gave Dell a job in the Design Office.
Dell's sidekicks were Messrs Hadaway and Challis.
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Post by CSLR on Mar 21, 2006 21:43:55 GMT
Yes the triangle of lights under the main head was a rail-gap indicator. And the rail gap - what little there is of it - is visible as a break in the conductor rails. The route of the cables feeding the next section can be seen in front of the PW trolley. Let me explain the problem with that gap and, to make it more interesting, let me use the rules and regulations that would have applied at that time – the late 1940s. Although much of this still applies today, I will speak about it in the past tense to ensure that everything is in context. Let us imagine that a train stopped in the tunnel and the motorman discharged the traction current by rubbing together the tunnel telephone wires. He (no women motormen or guards in those days) would have clipped-on the tunnel telephone and tried to speak to the sub-station attendant to explain why he had taken this action. If no contact was made, the sub-station attendant would have assumed that the current had been discharged as the result of a fault and he would have restored it after a few minutes. Even if contact had been made, the train crew would have placed short circuiting devices (SCDs) across the track at either end of the train to prevent current being restored. It was also generally understood that current would never be considered to have been discharged until SCDs were in place – the act of discharging current by using the tunnel telephone lines was not considered to be reliable. The SCDs also served another purpose that is directly related to the photograph that we are discussing. If there was a short rail gap (as in the photograph) there was a danger that the carriage of another train could bridge the gap, allowing current to pass up one set of collector shoes, down the other and thus liven up the ‘dead’ section of track. This is one reason why SCDs were required to be placed even if current was off: And because this could happen from both ends of a section, the SCDs were placed at either end of the train and left there as long as the crew required protection from the traction current. The other reason that SCDs were placed at front and rear of a train was to ensure that, if a train sat in two sections, both sections would be discharged. The question remains, how would a carriage get into a position to bridge the gap? Well, the regulations stated that if a motorman became aware that current had been discharged he should consider it to be an emergency and he should bring the train to a stop as soon as possible. If a train was crossing such a short gap when the current went off, each car crossing the gap could liven-up the dead section of track by passing current into it from the live section. If the signal went to danger, it would trip a train that was passing and could cause it to stop with a carriage across the gap. There was also the possibility that the stranded train could be bridging the gap itself until the current was discharged in both sections! One way around this was to make the rail gaps longer than the distance that could be bridged by any two collector shoes within a single circuit. That is why you see long rail gaps.
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