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Post by norbitonflyer on May 1, 2017 19:57:49 GMT
Which we know it has done in the past 🤔 Wasn't that because somebody was hanging their bag on the TBC? The 67 stock incident, as I recall, was a stuck door. The driver had already pressed the "go" buttons, so when he had unjammed the door, off it went, leaving him on the platform. Perfectly safe*, as the automatic system ran the train to the next station, bit there was no-one in the cab to open the doors. As was the Picc incident, which was stopped by the next red light it came to.
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Post by Chris W on May 1, 2017 20:23:59 GMT
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" Sadly I don't know what level is below a fool A tabloid journalist. Just listen to Mitch Benn's [The Now Show + lots more] take: Tabloid Journalist..... just listen to the final lyric
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Post by rheostar on May 1, 2017 21:40:55 GMT
Wasn't that because somebody was hanging their bag on the TBC? No, that was on the Picc 😉 That was a Piccadilly '73 stock at King's Cross.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 1, 2017 21:53:01 GMT
If a train op' running with the door open what must they think of timbo this weekend at the Ffestiniog Railway's "Quirks and Curiosities 2" gala?
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Post by rheostar on May 1, 2017 21:58:44 GMT
I remember 1959 stock with the M (cab front) door wedged open with a piece of wood! I've seen 73 stock with the nearside cab door wedged slightly open with a pen to create a breeze! An old 30 amp fuse was best for that. Most Picc drivers used to carry one in their bags.
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North End
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Post by North End on May 1, 2017 22:17:18 GMT
Wasn't that because somebody was hanging their bag on the TBC? The 67 stock incident, as I recall, was a stuck door. The driver had already pressed the "go" buttons, so when he had unjammed the door, off it went, leaving him on the platform. Perfectly safe*, as the automatic system ran the train to the next station, bit there was no-one in the cab to open the doors. As was the Picc incident, which was stopped by the next red light it came to. The Picc incident could have turned nasty if the train had managed to find a signal with a compromised overlap as the one it SPAD'd. Sure a combination of events would have had to come together, like a fast section, a station starter with short overlap, and a train ahead having an out-of-course stop, but nonetheless it's complacent to assume a train travelling at full speed is *guaranteed* to stop in time.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 1, 2017 23:30:21 GMT
The 67 stock incident, as I recall, was a stuck door. The driver had already pressed the "go" buttons, so when he had unjammed the door, off it went, leaving him on the platform. Perfectly safe*, as the automatic system ran the train to the next station, bit there was no-one in the cab to open the doors. As was the Picc incident, which was stopped by the next red light it came to. The Picc incident could have turned nasty if the train had managed to find a signal with a compromised overlap as the one it SPAD'd. Sure a combination of events would have had to come together, like a fast section, a station starter with short overlap, and a train ahead having an out-of-course stop, but nonetheless it's complacent to assume a train travelling at full speed is *guaranteed* to stop in time. I think a more likely cause of coming to grief would have been a low-speed section after a high speed one leading to a derailment.
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paulsw2
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Post by paulsw2 on May 2, 2017 1:40:28 GMT
These idiots must be completely out of touch with reality. I couldn't count the number of times I've seen trains operated with the driver's door open. It beggars belief that no one from the busybody with the camera, through the ninny that wrote the piece. to the editor that allowed it to deface his publication, was aware of the fact that it is quite a common occurrence in hot weather. I happened to be on the tube last week and therefore saw the Standard article while on the train. I saw a few words and the obvious use of a "social media" / "smartphone camera" type photo and thought it would be a load of hyped sensationalist nonsense. I sincerely hope no one at LU has taken this seriously or attempted any action against the driver. These sorts of "oh look how shocking" uninformed snapshots and rubbish remarks on social media are an absolute curse and the TV media & newspapers have people trawling the web with search routines etc all day, every day with the result that people get quoted and hounded and have their privacy breached. Virtually nothing is private or away from potential surveillance or scrutiny these days. Must make life very difficult for people working in public areas or with the public - constant risk of the slightest thing being recorded / snapped and then misinterpreted. And well done to "Mr Shrugged" for a well rounded, factual and astute response. I was talking to a Central driver on my wy home the other night and the driver had a CAP (company action plan) because of this incident I think that mountains out of molehills comes to mind myself as with the D stocks I almost always had offside door open and if it was that hot or humid I would have the nearside open as well
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Post by rheostar on May 2, 2017 8:08:56 GMT
The 67 stock incident, as I recall, was a stuck door. The driver had already pressed the "go" buttons, so when he had unjammed the door, off it went, leaving him on the platform. Perfectly safe*, as the automatic system ran the train to the next station, bit there was no-one in the cab to open the doors. As was the Picc incident, which was stopped by the next red light it came to. The Picc incident could have turned nasty if the train had managed to find a signal with a compromised overlap as the one it SPAD'd. Sure a combination of events would have had to come together, like a fast section, a station starter with short overlap, and a train ahead having an out-of-course stop, but nonetheless it's complacent to assume a train travelling at full speed is *guaranteed* to stop in time. When I did my training nearly 40 years ago, we were taught there was always a 'safe braking distance' between the trainstop and the next section ahead. This was disproved when the was a SPAD on the Central at Holborn, I think. There was a train sitting in the platform when the train behind SPADed the home signal and managed to hit the train in the platform. After that, we were told it was now a 'braking distance' www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=806
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North End
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Post by North End on May 2, 2017 8:19:44 GMT
The Picc incident could have turned nasty if the train had managed to find a signal with a compromised overlap as the one it SPAD'd. Sure a combination of events would have had to come together, like a fast section, a station starter with short overlap, and a train ahead having an out-of-course stop, but nonetheless it's complacent to assume a train travelling at full speed is *guaranteed* to stop in time. When I did my training nearly 40 years ago, we were taught there was always a 'safe braking distance' between the trainstop and the next section ahead. This was disproved when the was a SPAD on the Central at Holborn, I think. There was a train sitting in the platform when the train behind SPADed the home signal and managed to hit the train in the platform. After that, we were told it was now a 'braking distance' www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=806Indeed, that's one incident I was thinking of. Closer to home I can readily think of an occasion when a driver applied braking from 45 mph to stop at a station and slipped on wet leaves, and took over 600m to stop. Had any one of three signals been red the train would not have stopped within the overlap. (Not appropriate to post the location!).
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North End
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Post by North End on May 2, 2017 8:26:58 GMT
I happened to be on the tube last week and therefore saw the Standard article while on the train. I saw a few words and the obvious use of a "social media" / "smartphone camera" type photo and thought it would be a load of hyped sensationalist nonsense. I sincerely hope no one at LU has taken this seriously or attempted any action against the driver. These sorts of "oh look how shocking" uninformed snapshots and rubbish remarks on social media are an absolute curse and the TV media & newspapers have people trawling the web with search routines etc all day, every day with the result that people get quoted and hounded and have their privacy breached. Virtually nothing is private or away from potential surveillance or scrutiny these days. Must make life very difficult for people working in public areas or with the public - constant risk of the slightest thing being recorded / snapped and then misinterpreted. And well done to "Mr Shrugged" for a well rounded, factual and astute response. I was talking to a Central driver on my wy home the other night and the driver had a CAP (company action plan) because of this incident I think that mountains out of molehills comes to mind myself as with the D stocks I almost always had offside door open and if it was that hot or humid I would have the nearside open as well Obviously one should beware or rumours, however that f true then that's a lot of action plans needed! Open cab doors have been and are a regular feature of summer. The trouble is LU has never come up with an official position one way or the other, which I can sort of understand as I can appreciate the reluctance to sign something off as safe when obviously there is an element of risk. LU should have had the balls to tell the ES where to go. Unfortunately at the moment LU is probably only to happy to jump on any anti-driver (or even anti-staff) bandwagon.
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Post by rheostar on May 2, 2017 10:04:25 GMT
... in my 20 years working on the Tube I've never head of a single incident where anyone has fallen out of the cab door while driving...
I can think of one incident many years ago. On a nice sunny day, a Picc driver was heading back from Uxbridge. He had the cab door open (as did most of us) enjoying the fresh air coming in and happy with life in general. He was so relaxed, he took out his false teeth and put them on top of the T/Op's consul. Everything was fine until he hit a rough bit of track when his false teeth bounced up in the air, onto the floor and out the cab door! He then spent the next ten minutes out on the track trying to find them.
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Post by stapler on May 2, 2017 11:58:28 GMT
Did LT make him sign indentures after that?
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Post by drainrat on May 2, 2017 13:13:12 GMT
No, that was on the Picc 😉 That was a Piccadilly '73 stock at King's Cross. Isn't that what I said hehe 😉
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Post by drainrat on May 2, 2017 13:26:20 GMT
The Picc incident could have turned nasty if the train had managed to find a signal with a compromised overlap as the one it SPAD'd. Sure a combination of events would have had to come together, like a fast section, a station starter with short overlap, and a train ahead having an out-of-course stop, but nonetheless it's complacent to assume a train travelling at full speed is *guaranteed* to stop in time. When I did my training nearly 40 years ago, we were taught there was always a 'safe braking distance' between the trainstop and the next section ahead. This was disproved when the was a SPAD on the Central at Holborn, I think. There was a train sitting in the platform when the train behind SPADed the home signal and managed to hit the train in the platform. After that, we were told it was now a 'braking distance' www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=806When they first placed signals on the Jubilee line extension, most were poorly placed and some in the wrong place. Leaving Canning Town toward North Greenwich doing line speed, if you put in full braking the moment you saw the repeater on yellow, you had no chance of stopping at the signal, mainly due to gradient which we're drummed into is one of the factors in safe braking distances. Approaching London Bridge east, you caught a glimpse of signal before the repeater 'popped' up yellow, resulting in many SPADs, more than 13 in 6 months all them years back before LUL accepted they'd sighted it wrong.
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Post by drainrat on May 2, 2017 13:30:28 GMT
... in my 20 years working on the Tube I've never head of a single incident where anyone has fallen out of the cab door while driving...
I can think of one incident many years ago. On a nice sunny day, a Picc driver was heading back from Uxbridge. He had the cab door open (as did most of us) enjoying the fresh air coming in and happy with life in general. He was so relaxed, he took out his false teeth and put them on top of the T/Op's consul. Everything was fine until he hit a rough bit of track when his false teeth bounced up in the air, onto the floor and out the cab door! He then spent the next ten minutes out on the track trying to find them. Could be the same Picc driver I caught sleeping on the cushions on Central line, as he had his head on one side falling toward the woman sat next to him as his false teeth gently slid from his mouth and onto her lap, she screamed and woke him up as he thanked her for catching his teeth before they hit the floor. Classic!.....Sadly, no longer with us 😔
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Post by drainrat on May 2, 2017 13:38:48 GMT
I happened to be on the tube last week and therefore saw the Standard article while on the train. I saw a few words and the obvious use of a "social media" / "smartphone camera" type photo and thought it would be a load of hyped sensationalist nonsense. I sincerely hope no one at LU has taken this seriously or attempted any action against the driver. These sorts of "oh look how shocking" uninformed snapshots and rubbish remarks on social media are an absolute curse and the TV media & newspapers have people trawling the web with search routines etc all day, every day with the result that people get quoted and hounded and have their privacy breached. Virtually nothing is private or away from potential surveillance or scrutiny these days. Must make life very difficult for people working in public areas or with the public - constant risk of the slightest thing being recorded / snapped and then misinterpreted. And well done to "Mr Shrugged" for a well rounded, factual and astute response. I was talking to a Central driver on my wy home the other night and the driver had a CAP (company action plan) because of this incident I think that mountains out of molehills comes to mind myself as with the D stocks I almost always had offside door open and if it was that hot or humid I would have the nearside open as well Hmmmm, sounds a bit off to me 🤔
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Post by philthetube on May 2, 2017 20:21:00 GMT
I can see issues here it there is a hot summer
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on May 3, 2017 11:32:01 GMT
On a related note...some years ago there was a 1950s photo on here of a District Line hand-worked door stock running with its passenger doors open (a practice my dad remembers)...the location of the picture was narrowed down to East Putney,I think....I've tried in vain to "re-find" this picture using the search facility on this forum and elsewhere....could anyone help me out??
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Post by bassmike on May 3, 2017 12:13:09 GMT
I remember riding the circle line in the early fifties standing by an open door.
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Post by John Tuthill on May 3, 2017 12:18:44 GMT
On a related note...some years ago there was a 1950s photo on here of a District Line hand-worked door stock running with its passenger doors open (a practice my dad remembers)...the location of the picture was narrowed down to East Putney,I think....I've tried in vain to "re-find" this picture using the search facility on this forum and elsewhere....could anyone help me out?? Have you tries the Covent Garden Museums photo archive?
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 3, 2017 12:28:21 GMT
On a related note...some years ago there was a 1950s photo on here of a District Line hand-worked door stock running with its passenger doors open the location of the picture was narrowed down to East Putney,I think....I've tried in vain to "re-find" this picture using the search facility on this forum and elsewhere....could anyone help me out?? districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/3427/hse-where-yerFound using Google: < District hand worked doors >
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on May 3, 2017 16:19:59 GMT
Thank you!
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Post by spsmiler on May 3, 2017 16:56:40 GMT
I see this Evening Standard news story as 'troublesome muck raking by the unaware'. Its been done for many years, especially in hot weather. See below... [img src=" c1.staticflickr.com/3/2927/34091237871_bc72d4e5bd_c.jpg" src=" 1938Tube-QueensPk1-flickr by Simon Smiler, on Flickr" alt=" "] In 1991 I travelled across the Sydney Harbour Bridge on a train which had hand operated sliding doors. Only one hand was holding (wrapped around!) the handrail and the other hand contained a camcorder that was filming the journey. It was great - no dirty glass or reflections to compromise the view. This footage is now on YouTube - in my Sydney film which includes the Harbour Bridge. I know some people who remember the hand operated doors here in London. They said that whilst they were concerned about the possibility of falling out they mitigated the risk by holding handrails and taking responsibility for their behavour. On a hot summer's day the ventilation was superb! Simon edit to add: Apologies, I do not know why but the image of a 1938 tube stock train arriving at Queens Park with the front door open refuses to show up. Here is another link to it: www.flickr.com/photos/citytransportinfo/34091237871/in/dateposted/
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Post by roman80 on May 3, 2017 20:00:19 GMT
In 1991 I travelled across the Sydney Harbour Bridge on a train which had hand operated sliding doors. Only one hand was holding (wrapped around!) the handrail and the other hand contained a camcorder that was filming the journey. It was great - no dirty glass or reflections to compromise the view. This footage is now on YouTube - in my Sydney film which includes the Harbour Bridge. These trains were known in Sydney as 'red rattlers', and were built between 1926 & 1960. Some of the early ones were built in Leeds. The last ones were withdrawn in 1993. I can remember many a trip through the underground 'City Circle' part of the Sydney system and out over the Harbour Bridge when I commuted from home in Wollongong to North Sydney for work. Until the mid 90s the interurban South Coast line from Sydney featured some legacy single deck interurban trains ('U boats' as their set number was prefaced with a U) so I regularly made a sixty mile journey at speeds of approaching seventy miles an hour on some of the intercity sections on sets with manually operated doors and windows each day. www.sydneytrains.info/about/fleet/generationsen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_U_set
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Post by drainrat on May 7, 2017 9:53:19 GMT
I see this Evening Standard news story as 'troublesome muck raking by the unaware'. Its been done for many years, especially in hot weather. See below... [img src=" c1.staticflickr.com/3/2927/34091237871_bc72d4e5bd_c.jpg" src=" 1938Tube-QueensPk1-flickr by Simon Smiler, on Flickr" alt=" "] In 1991 I travelled across the Sydney Harbour Bridge on a train which had hand operated sliding doors. Only one hand was holding (wrapped around!) the handrail and the other hand contained a camcorder that was filming the journey. It was great - no dirty glass or reflections to compromise the view. This footage is now on YouTube - in my Sydney film which includes the Harbour Bridge. I know some people who remember the hand operated doors here in London. They said that whilst they were concerned about the possibility of falling out they mitigated the risk by holding handrails and taking responsibility for their behavour. On a hot summer's day the ventilation was superb! Simon edit to add: Apologies, I do not know why but the image of a 1938 tube stock train arriving at Queens Park with the front door open refuses to show up. Here is another link to it: www.flickr.com/photos/citytransportinfo/34091237871/in/dateposted/ Troublesome muck raking that has landed the driver with a corrective action plan (CAP) and rumour has it (generally true) a 52 wk caution, all refused signing and appealed by the driver, as I would hope so too. The trouble is, TfL is no longer managed by people with railway experience. It would seem that current corporate policy across the country is to get the youngsters quickly into positions of power, while leaving anyone over 25 in limbo with ever decreasing opportunities of promotion. The youngsters really don't have a clue on what 'greases the wheels' and are unable, it seems, to differentiate between what does and doesn't matter, but I guess generations create their own realities, which then invalidates any experience the older heads have, in other words create an environment where 25 yrs experience on a job means you're out of touch and a hindrance. Glass ceilings, and glass floors 😕
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Post by drainrat on May 7, 2017 9:57:27 GMT
In 1991 I travelled across the Sydney Harbour Bridge on a train which had hand operated sliding doors. Only one hand was holding (wrapped around!) the handrail and the other hand contained a camcorder that was filming the journey. It was great - no dirty glass or reflections to compromise the view. This footage is now on YouTube - in my Sydney film which includes the Harbour Bridge. These trains were known in Sydney as 'red rattlers', and were built between 1926 & 1960. Some of the early ones were built in Leeds. The last ones were withdrawn in 1993. I can remember many a trip through the underground 'City Circle' part of the Sydney system and out over the Harbour Bridge when I commuted from home in Wollongong to North Sydney for work. Until the mid 90s the interurban South Coast line from Sydney featured some legacy single deck interurban trains ('U boats' as their set number was prefaced with a U) so I regularly made a sixty mile journey at speeds of approaching seventy miles an hour on some of the intercity sections on sets with manually operated doors and windows each day. www.sydneytrains.info/about/fleet/generationsen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales_U_setWaiting for the time the Australian gov add driving trains to the skills list 🙌😄
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Post by aslefshrugged on May 10, 2017 19:00:05 GMT
Nothing on the notice board about driving with the cab door open when I got in to work Monday, no email, nothing. Plenty of trains being driven with door open today because its sunny and warm.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 21:40:30 GMT
I agree with with this, just look at the generally abrasive strike inducing management style of LUL in general, evident from the Incident at London bridge, and from general postings on this board and the Guardian and Times newspapers. Those youngsters or kiddies are unsuitable as Managers, as they lack the soft skills necessary to run a proper team. Sorry for being so blunt about this, but the whole system needs reform, with Decent experienced management.
There are many decent managers within LUL, but, unfortunately those inexperienced managers tarnish LUL's reputation for everyone, and should be shot!
Regarding the London Bridge fare dodger incident, it should have been brought to a Court of Law to decide who is wrong, not an inept LUL manager.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 10, 2017 22:14:30 GMT
Those youngsters or kiddies are unsuitable as Managers, as they lack the soft skills necessary to run a proper team. Sorry for being so blunt about this, but the whole system needs reform, with Decent experienced management. I think you'll find those youngsters and kiddies are in their 40s. They're hardly fresh off the graduate scheme. Can you take your axe and grind it somewhere else?
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