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Post by up1989 on Mar 20, 2017 19:41:37 GMT
I was wondering the other day do Lul drivers on the lines that cross NR infrastructure need a special licence, different from say a Licence of a driver that doesn't cross NR?
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paulsw2
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Post by paulsw2 on Mar 21, 2017 1:07:49 GMT
I was wondering the other day do Lul drivers on the lines that cross NR infrastructure need a special licence, different from say a Licence of a driver that doesn't cross NR? No |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 5:46:41 GMT
No they don't need a special license but they do an extra course at Ashfield House during training to learn Network Rail rules. Same for the lines that run alongside Network Rail (Central Line at Ealing Broadway and North Acton - Ruislip for example) they do a course called "Parallel Running" to learn some NR rules.
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Post by johnb2 on Mar 21, 2017 11:09:08 GMT
Presumably then there is a similiar arrangement for the Met and Chiltern Lines drivers as there is parallel from Finchley Road HotH and joint from there to Amersham
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 12:18:31 GMT
Presumably then there is a similiar arrangement for the Met and Chiltern Lines drivers as there is parallel from Finchley Road HotH and joint from there to Amersham Yep there will be, I just used the Central as an example. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 21, 2017 12:28:34 GMT
On the Central Line drivers get "parallel running" training which is included in the annual refresher course, the trains have detonators in the emergency equipment cabinet should we ever derail and end up blocking the mainline which runs alongside the West Ruislip branch or at Ealing Broadway (they also mention Stratford but it would have to be a pretty spectacular derailment for us to end up blocking the mainline there).
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Post by chris11256 on Mar 21, 2017 12:53:14 GMT
Does anyone know if NR drivers have a similar thing to what aslefshrugged mentioned. As tasking my local line(c2c) as an example, it's theoretically possible for a 357/387 to derail and block the LU tracks.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 20:07:28 GMT
They did remove track circuit clips as they don't bow well when in contact with LU traction rails.
Is this still the case that LU trains no longer have the track circuit clips in the emergency cupboards?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 21, 2017 20:18:43 GMT
Does anyone know if NR drivers have a similar thing to what aslefshrugged mentioned. As tasking my local line(c2c) as an example, it's theoretically possible for a 357/387 to derail and block the LU tracks. There is something similar. I can't remember the name of the document but I have seen one which refers to the Metrolink lines running next to NR in Manchester, information is provided about the SPAS (Signal Passed at Stop) indicators and contact telephone numbers et cetera. |
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Post by kesmet on Mar 24, 2017 20:30:43 GMT
On the Central Line drivers get "parallel running" training which is included in the annual refresher course, the trains have detonators in the emergency equipment cabinet should we ever derail and end up blocking the mainline which runs alongside the West Ruislip branch or at Ealing Broadway (they also mention Stratford but it would have to be a pretty spectacular derailment for us to end up blocking the mainline there). What are the detonators used for? Is it just 'audible warning', or is there something else more 'technical'? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 21:07:52 GMT
On the Central Line drivers get "parallel running" training which is included in the annual refresher course, the trains have detonators in the emergency equipment cabinet should we ever derail and end up blocking the mainline which runs alongside the West Ruislip branch or at Ealing Broadway (they also mention Stratford but it would have to be a pretty spectacular derailment for us to end up blocking the mainline there). What are the detonators used for? Is it just 'audible warning', or is there something else more 'technical'? Not really, detonators are part of the mandatory protection for a blocked line. When the train's wheels run over them though make a loud popping noise and there are some sparks (though the driver wouldn't see them) and the driver must stop the train immediately. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 25, 2017 0:42:42 GMT
On the Central Line drivers get "parallel running" training which is included in the annual refresher course, the trains have detonators in the emergency equipment cabinet should we ever derail and end up blocking the mainline which runs alongside the West Ruislip branch or at Ealing Broadway (they also mention Stratford but it would have to be a pretty spectacular derailment for us to end up blocking the mainline there). What are the detonators used for? Is it just 'audible warning', or is there something else more 'technical'? Purely an audible warning, they are small explosive charges clipped to a rail which explode when crushed by train wheels. |
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Post by PiccNT on Mar 25, 2017 13:26:02 GMT
What are the detonators used for? Is it just 'audible warning', or is there something else more 'technical'? Not really, detonators are part of the mandatory protection for a blocked line. When the train's wheels run over them though make a loud popping noise and there are some sparks (though the driver wouldn't see them) and the driver must stop the train immediately. I don't know if Network Rail is different but if we go over a detonator (and I have), we must reduce the speed of our train and be prepared to stop at any obstruction. We would only immediately stop after going over a second detonator. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 13:51:49 GMT
Not really, detonators are part of the mandatory protection for a blocked line. When the train's wheels run over them though make a loud popping noise and there are some sparks (though the driver wouldn't see them) and the driver must stop the train immediately. I don't know if Network Rail is different but if we go over a detonator (and I have), we must reduce the speed of our train and be prepared to stop at any obstruction. We would only immediately stop after going over a second detonator. You sure it's not the flatted wheels your hearing  |
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Post by PiccNT on Mar 25, 2017 14:39:06 GMT
Good point. No, the flatted wheels are louder than the detonators :-)
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Post by philthetube on Mar 25, 2017 22:22:54 GMT
They did remove track circuit clips as they don't bow well when in contact with LU traction rails. Is this still the case that LU trains no longer have the track circuit clips in the emergency cupboards? The Met carry track circuit clips with strict instructions that they must not be used on fourth rail systems, drivers have to practice using them on dead track annually. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 26, 2017 9:03:42 GMT
They did remove track circuit clips as they don't bow well when in contact with LU traction rails. Is this still the case that LU trains no longer have the track circuit clips in the emergency cupboards? The Met carry track circuit clips with strict instructions that they must not be used on fourth rail systems, drivers have to practice using them on dead track annually. We have them on the Central Line too |
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Post by piccboy on Mar 26, 2017 10:17:07 GMT
The Met carry track circuit clips with strict instructions that they must not be used on fourth rail systems, drivers have to practice using them on dead track annually. We have them on the Central Line too We have them on the District line too. |
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Post by up1989 on Mar 26, 2017 14:21:34 GMT
Whats a track circuit clip? Is that to maintain a signal at danger?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 14:39:48 GMT
Whats a track circuit clip? Is that to maintain a signal at danger? Well basically yes, it substitutes for a train's wheels in shorting out the relay, causing the track circuit to behave as if occupied. Naturally this will place or maintain any signals controlled by the track circuit at danger. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 15:03:17 GMT
2 hooks that go over the rail with a piece of wire in between as already mentioned it puts a short of the track circuit thus dropping out the relay
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 29, 2017 8:56:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 11:56:42 GMT
The second picture doesn't work unfortunately |
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Post by Chris M on Mar 29, 2017 12:28:24 GMT
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 29, 2017 12:43:19 GMT
When doing Personal Track Safety Training on Network Rail you are taught to place three detonators in close succession if you need to block a line.
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Post by brigham on Mar 29, 2017 13:24:28 GMT
The short-circuit device must produce quite a flash, then.
Are you supposed to use the rubber gloves and mat?
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Post by Chris M on Mar 29, 2017 16:30:26 GMT
The short circuiting device is intended to be used only after power has already been discharged - it acts as a backup so that the power trips if it is accidentally turned back on before people are clear of the track. It is also designed in such a way that you don't need a mat or gloves as you remain insulated all the time (if using it correctly) - it is first clamped to the running rail and then, using an insulated handle, moved to make secure contact with the power rail.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 29, 2017 17:12:58 GMT
The video below (skip to 16 seconds) shows a track circuit operating device being placed. Later in the video is the requirement to place detonators - walk 2km in the direction trains will be coming, place three detonators 20m apart and move away at least 30m (Network Rail rules)
I'm looking for a video of applying a short circuiting device but haven't found one yet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 17:17:27 GMT
You would be very lucky to get 2km maybe on a rural branch line but not on the ECML you wouldn't get that far.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 29, 2017 17:51:16 GMT
At 7 minutes 36 seconds in the video below is a demonstration of a London Underground short circuiting device (from circa 1990) that connects the positive and negative current rails directly to one another - again after the current has been turned off.
The video goes into more detail about them from 8:38
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