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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 17, 2023 16:23:38 GMT
Unfortunately, not yet. SMA 7 will continue with 56mph (90kph)
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Post by bazza55 on Mar 17, 2023 18:41:54 GMT
Is there any plan to tighten these further? Next timetable change Monday 22 May, “minor adjustments Barking and Upminster areas”. A reduction of 2-3 min in the running times maybe? The longer dwell times are noticeable. At least 1 min at Barking eastbound. And probably a minute or two from there to Upminster?
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 17, 2023 21:17:05 GMT
Prompted by the remarks on doors and dwell time at Earls Court in the adjacent posts: The long Earls Court dwell times are more apparent, and more likely to occur, post SMA5 despite improved run times in the last working timetable release. Is there any plan to tighten these further? Very common to see trains advertised as two or more minutes away from departure on the boards suddenly approach and dock at the platform. with one hand LU say that they cannot run more peak hour trains because of capacity constraints at Earls Court and with the other hand they use Earls Court as a dwell point Surely West Brompton and West Kensington would be better?
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Post by Chris L on Mar 17, 2023 21:21:32 GMT
Earl's Court has drivers based there so logical to have dwell time for changeovers.
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Post by t697 on Mar 17, 2023 22:12:49 GMT
Unfortunately, not yet. SMA 7 will continue with 56mph (90kph) This tag reading issue does seem odd when one considers how many years ago this was being tested at Old Dalby with S stock and the first but apparently fully representative CBTC equipment at up to full speed, yet it has 'only come to light recently', shortly before SMA6 was commissioned.
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Mar 18, 2023 9:47:27 GMT
So, this coming weekend this scene become history! (Eastbound approach to Upminster Bridge) The only change to this view will be that the signal heads will be covered in black plastic bags. None of them will be removed as its not in the contract to do so.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 18, 2023 11:04:46 GMT
The trainstops will also be held down.
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Post by david123 on Mar 18, 2023 11:48:55 GMT
Is East Ham still opening at 2pm?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 18, 2023 11:57:02 GMT
First scheduled trains: 13.13 Richmond 13.49 Barking.
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Post by david123 on Mar 18, 2023 12:04:09 GMT
By the way, what happens at Aldgate junction, is a late running District Line is say 15 late, yet a on time train is in front, would the system allow the on time train in front go as fast as it can to try allow the late train behind to go as fast as possible to get back onto time?
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Post by bazza55 on Mar 18, 2023 13:34:53 GMT
Does ATO apply different braking rates for wet and dry weather on the open air sections of track? Yesterday morning was damp and i noted the performance 'seemed' more sluggish than usual on the ATO section east of Bromley-By-Bow. The 12mph restriction eastbound at East Ham seems to be linked to a set of points at the east end of the station where there is a noticeable dip as each wheel rolls over it. Wonder if / when that is due to be remedied. In an earlier post someone referenced a blue signal aspect. This i noted at Becontree where westbound trains switch from manual to ATO. There is a small departure signal showing red or blue aspects. When changing from red to blue it sounds like a trainstop is lowered to allow the train onto the ATO section. I'm assuming this doesn't clear if the driver cannot switch into ATO mode?
On another note..can anyone summarise the procedures in switching the section from manual signals to ATO . I.E shutting down signal cabins, bagging over the signal heads, deactivating legacy assetts and energising the new, testing etc.
IS it likely passenger service will resume tomorrow afternoon all the way to Upminster?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 18, 2023 14:14:25 GMT
By the way, what happens at Aldgate junction, is a late running District Line is say 15 late, yet a on time train is in front, would the system allow the on time train in front go as fast as it can to try allow the late train behind to go as fast as possible to get back onto time? The on-time train will stay on-time. The system will endeavour to speed the late train up, through shorter dwell time or quicker between stations.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 18, 2023 14:22:27 GMT
Does ATO apply different braking rates for wet and dry weather on the open air sections of track? yes, trains are constantly monitoring their surroundings and will 'report' back to the VCC Vehicle Control Centre that wheel-slip or wheel-slide is occurring and adjust the braking/acceleration curve of following trains. Three trainstops protect the CBTC area from manual trains. When a train is switched to ATO it tries to communicate with the VCC and when this is achieved the trainstops will lower, the red aspect changes to blue. When movement authority is achieved a target point is displayed in the cab and then train-side white lights illuminate. yes.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 18, 2023 19:44:10 GMT
This means the end for Barking and Upminster signal cabins, leaving the only traditional LU cabins out on the Met!
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Mar 18, 2023 20:34:08 GMT
Met signal cabins still operating Amersham. Rickmansworth, Harrow on the Hill and Rayners Lane .
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Post by Chris L on Mar 18, 2023 20:50:00 GMT
This means the end for Barking and Upminster signal cabins, leaving the only traditional LU cabins out on the Met! When I was surveying air conditioning units on the Met I was amazed to see inside the signal cabins at Harrow-on-the-Hill and Rayners Lane. A real blast from the past.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 18, 2023 21:00:07 GMT
It's been a long journey since the start of central control of signalling on LU! ? Watford from Ricky 1955? It's taken a lot of money.
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
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Post by Colin on Mar 18, 2023 21:26:03 GMT
The 12mph restriction eastbound at East Ham seems to be linked to a set of points at the east end of the station where there is a noticeable dip as each wheel rolls over it. Wonder if / when that is due to be remedied. The 12mph speed restriction had nothing to do with the points. It was because of the presence of the tripcock tester in the platform area which became redundant this weekend, so the 12mph speed restriction should now be gone. EDIT: correction to what I originally posted.......the 12mph speed restriction will remain in place for now pending a future software drop.
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Post by silenthunter on Mar 18, 2023 21:41:54 GMT
This means the end for Barking and Upminster signal cabins, leaving the only traditional LU cabins out on the Met! Museum possibilities? Like Epping?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 19, 2023 7:38:42 GMT
Museum possibilities? Like Epping? Not being traditional lever frames, rather the 1950s push-button style (heavily modified) I think little chance. (Harrow-on-the-Hill would be great, access from platform, many original features intact, good views!)
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Post by bazza55 on Mar 19, 2023 12:18:51 GMT
Any updates as to when the first trains might start running to from Upminster today?
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Post by bazza55 on Mar 19, 2023 12:20:40 GMT
The 12mph restriction eastbound at East Ham seems to be linked to a set of points at the east end of the station where there is a noticeable dip as each wheel rolls over it. Wonder if / when that is due to be remedied. The 12mph speed restriction had nothing to do with the points. It was because of the presence of the tripcock tester in the platform area which became redundant this weekend, so the 12mph speed restriction should now be gone. EDIT: correction to what I originally posted.......the 12mph speed restriction will remain in place for now pending a future software drop. Was that the location of the 20mph PSR for stock rail defect?. Why does the presence of a tripcock tester cause this issue?
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Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
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Post by Colin on Mar 19, 2023 13:14:41 GMT
Any updates as to when the first trains might start running to from Upminster today? Trains will go into passenger service from 14.00
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Mar 19, 2023 20:10:01 GMT
Why does the presence of a tripcock tester cause this issue? The system enforces a low speed up to and through the tripcock tester to ensure that the train doesn't get falsely tripped on it, which can happen if the train's speed is too high.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 19, 2023 22:48:46 GMT
I presume this is because of sway. A tripcock tester requires the tripcock to pass through a relatively small aperture with a small margin of error. At a higher speed, the greater the likelihood that a working tripcock will be positioned incorrectly for the tester.
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Post by bazza55 on Mar 20, 2023 9:26:52 GMT
Some initial analysis based on my first run of yesterday - albeit on a seemingly easy timetable. So lots of dwell time and not even the full 56mph between some stations as the computer set lower running speeds due to the train being on time or early. At least a minute faster running times Becontree to Upminster Bridge under ATO compared to manual driving. I recorded my fastest run into Upminster ever of 1 min 48 secs. But not enough to beat the fastest recorded time of 1 min 37 seconds. Will post some more analysis later
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Post by 100andthirty on Mar 20, 2023 9:38:15 GMT
I presume this is because of sway. A tripcock tester requires the tripcock to pass through a relatively small aperture with a small margin of error. At a higher speed, the greater the likelihood that a working tripcock will be positioned incorrectly for the tester. Tripcocks are mounted on the shoebeam which is effectively rigidly located on the axleboxes. The only lateral motion (sway) is that of the wheel flanges between the gauge faces of the rails. But at tripcock testers, check rails are provided to control the lateral motion. The real reason for a speed limit over tripcock testers is to provide a positive depression of the treadle rather than a fleeting contact (rememberine that the tripcock can be knocked back a little without tripping). And, ultimately,to minimise the risk of the energy from hitting the tripcock tester at higher speed actually causing the tripcock to be tripped.
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Post by bazza55 on Mar 20, 2023 11:12:42 GMT
Can tripcocks still be tripped in ATO mode?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 20, 2023 11:18:32 GMT
Can tripcocks still be tripped in ATO mode? Yes. (hence why the three trainstops at the boundary lower, as mentioned a few posts back)
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Mar 20, 2023 11:39:58 GMT
Has the speed limit for trains entering platform 5 been removed ?
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