Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 3, 2019 1:49:13 GMT
Does anyone know when SMA 3 is due to go live next? 22nd / 23rd February 2020 |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Sept 3, 2019 4:01:36 GMT
Does anyone know when SMA 3 is due to go live next? 22nd / 23rd February 2020 Is that a bit close to the proposed March 2020 timetable with extra Aldgate train? Does there need to be a settling in period? Can the new timetable be implemented but with the extra train turned short for a few weeks? Or will it now have to await the December 2020 timetable implementation? |
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Post by ijmad on Sept 3, 2019 8:35:34 GMT
22nd / 23rd February 2020 Is that a bit close to the proposed March 2020 timetable with extra Aldgate train? Does there need to be a settling in period? Can the new timetable be implemented but with the extra train turned short for a few weeks? Or will it now have to await the December 2020 timetable implementation? I would think that once SMA1/2 has throughly bedded in, they'll have confidence that the SMA3 switchover will go smoothly. Similar challenges after all (a couple of flat junctions and trains terminating in middle platforms). As said by others in this thread, on a technical level the SMA1/2 switchover appears to have gone near flawlessly. The issue causing delays on the Met this week is late driver training. In a few weeks time every driver on the SSR will know the CTBC procedures as all four lines are running through the new area. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 3, 2019 8:48:02 GMT
In a few weeks time every driver on the SSR will know the CTBC procedures as all four lines are running through the new area. Barking (District) and Upminster drivers are yet to start CBTC training as they are not involved with SMA 1/2. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 3, 2019 9:04:47 GMT
In a few weeks time every driver on the SSR will know the CTBC procedures as all four lines are running through the new area. Barking (District) and Upminster drivers are yet to start CBTC training as they are not involved with SMA 1/2. Barking and Upminster started training in June! Granted a few course have been re-arranged due to trainer or I/O assist availability, but we have most certainly made a start. |
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Post by ijmad on Sept 3, 2019 9:16:34 GMT
In a few weeks time every driver on the SSR will know the CTBC procedures as all four lines are running through the new area. Barking (District) and Upminster drivers are yet to start CBTC training as they are not involved with SMA 1/2. My mistake. Still, plenty of time between now and Feb, you'd have thought, although I'm guessing these are some of the larger groups of drivers. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Sept 3, 2019 9:20:49 GMT
Seems I spoke too soon - as this morning the current TFL Status update shows severe delays on services to Aldgate - Harrow on the Hill/Uxbridge with minor delays for the rest of the line.
If we accept the latest SMA signalling system transition is indeed working fine - then why oh why did someone not realise that they would not have enough suitably trained Met line drivers to deliver a suitable service?
I am not suggesting TFL delay and delay the roll out of the new signalling system to allow endless testing of all possible scenarios (sort of reminiscent of that super efficient Yes Minister Hospital with no patients) - just getting people to realise that there now appears to be a disconnect between the driver training programme and the people responsible for the technical preparation and implementation of the new signalling.
I guess in the short term passengers will just have to put up with this, but I really hope TFL learn from this and put as much pressure on the training people as they have been putting on the techy people.
Hopefully they still have time to make sure that all Barking and Upminster drivers are suitably trained before they allow the techy people to go turning on any further SMA signalling sections which will affect their rosters.
Hey Ho - Best laid plans...
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Post by Chris L on Sept 4, 2019 6:25:11 GMT
Are Barking drivers split between District and Hammersmith & City?
Recent weekend services saw trains to Edgware Road via the south side of the Circle line.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 4, 2019 6:32:43 GMT
No, drivers at Barking are either District or Circle and Hammersmith & City but not both.
You mention trains to Edgware Road via the south side of the Circle line.......what's unusual about that? Circle line trains go to Edgware Road all day 7 days a week!
My educated guess is the trains you are enquiring about originated from Barking and travelled directly from Aldgate East to Tower hill. If that's the case, well Circle and Hammersmith & City drivers are fully trained and quite capable of taking trains from Aldgate East to Tower Hill.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 4, 2019 6:36:22 GMT
Are Barking drivers split between District and Hammersmith & City? Recent weekend services saw trains to Edgware Road via the south side of the Circle line. Yes Barking has separate groups of drivers, the unions do not allow cross line working. The only drivers who work all lines are the Test Train Operators and Engineers Train Operators. |
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Post by Chris L on Sept 4, 2019 21:38:16 GMT
No, drivers at Barking are either District or Circle and Hammersmith & City but not both. You mention trains to Edgware Road via the south side of the Circle line.......what's unusual about that? Circle line trains go to Edgware Road all day 7 days a week! My educated guess is the trains you are enquiring about originated from Barking and travelled directly from Aldgate East to Tower hill. If that's the case, well Circle and Hammersmith & City drivers are fully trained and quite capable of taking trains from Aldgate East to Tower Hill. They were working from Barking to Edgware Road via High Street Kensington rather than via King's Cross. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Sept 4, 2019 22:13:00 GMT
There are numerous trains booked daily to run to/from Barking via the south side of the Circle, and it is frequently used as a diversionary route for all manner of reasons.
I expect that people are thinking of the combined Edgware Road to Upminster via Victoria service that ran recently; this saw drivers changing over at Barking, with CnH drivers covering the south side of the Circle.
However, this is off topic for a thread on SSR resignalling.
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Post by alpinejohn on Sept 5, 2019 12:13:35 GMT
The latest TFL Weekend Travel Update email has just arrived and reports closures east of Aldgate on the District and the entire Hammersmith & Closed for the weekend - but with no mention as to why?
I assume its not another SMA roll-out, but I guess it may be some sort of new signalling system enabling works. IE running phantom trains to see if the trains can actually see the various track balise.
Does anyone know what is causing the closure?
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Post by MoreToJack on Sept 5, 2019 12:19:08 GMT
Crossrail work at Whitechapel, unconnected to 4LM.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 6, 2019 18:03:19 GMT
Crossrail work at Whitechapel, unconnected to 4LM. But 4LM will be taking advantage of the closure to do some work, surely? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 6, 2019 20:09:24 GMT
Crossrail work at Whitechapel, unconnected to 4LM. But 4LM will be taking advantage of the closure to do some work, surely? Depends if they need to do anything and whether that interferes with what Crossrail are doing. AFAIK all the equipment is installed in the SMA3 area so 4LM would likely only want access to test run trains. Given the train service suspension for Crossrail work (I suspect it’s scaffold removal as that’s been gradually reducing recently), I wouldn’t have thought 4LM would be able to run test trains either so on this occasion they probably can’t take advantage of the closure. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 8:45:37 GMT
Equipment is installed upto SMA5 and powered up just not running the railway.
Equipment is installed also upto SMA6 but it’s not powered up
They’re are currently installing equipment in SMA7
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Post by londonstuff on Sept 7, 2019 11:30:19 GMT
Equipment is installed upto SMA5 and powered up just not running the railway. Equipment is installed also upto SMA6 but it’s not powered up They’re are currently installing equipment in SMA7 I don’t think it’s running passively across the existing signalling like the Vic did but in SMAs 3-5 where it’s powered up, is there any way of monitoring that it’s running correctly so that any parts or other equipment that haven’t been set up properly or fail shortly after installation can be fixed before that area goes live? |
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Post by patrickb on Sept 7, 2019 11:38:47 GMT
Equipment is installed upto SMA5 and powered up just not running the railway. Equipment is installed also upto SMA6 but it’s not powered up They’re are currently installing equipment in SMA7 If commissioning of signalling equipment on those sections is successful, effectively the entire Circle and Hammersmith & City Line would be automated. Is it plausible for Night Tube to commence on these two lines even if work is ongoing on the District and Met? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 12:51:38 GMT
Equipment is installed upto SMA5 and powered up just not running the railway. Equipment is installed also upto SMA6 but it’s not powered up They’re are currently installing equipment in SMA7 I don’t think it’s running passively across the existing signalling like the Vic did but in SMAs 3-5 where it’s powered up, is there any way of monitoring that it’s running correctly so that any parts or other equipment that haven’t been set up properly or fail shortly after installation can be fixed before that area goes live? Well the information from site is being transmitted to Hammersmith but not doing anything at that end. Only the people at Hammersmith would know if it’s being monitored or not all I can say is after being in the new rooms it’s definitely leaving the sites |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 12:54:04 GMT
Equipment is installed upto SMA5 and powered up just not running the railway. Equipment is installed also upto SMA6 but it’s not powered up They’re are currently installing equipment in SMA7 If commissioning of signalling equipment on those sections is successful, effectively the entire Circle and Hammersmith & City Line would be automated. Is it plausible for Night Tube to commence on these two lines even if work is ongoing on the District and Met? SMA6 will complete the H&C that’s a long way off yet though |
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Post by MoreToJack on Sept 7, 2019 13:13:00 GMT
I don’t think it’s running passively across the existing signalling like the Vic did but in SMAs 3-5 where it’s powered up, is there any way of monitoring that it’s running correctly so that any parts or other equipment that haven’t been set up properly or fail shortly after installation can be fixed before that area goes live? Well the information from site is being transmitted to Hammersmith but not doing anything at that end. Only the people at Hammersmith would know if it’s being monitored or not all I can say is after being in the new rooms it’s definitely leaving the sites There is, I believe, some passive monitoring and recording of data by Thales but it’s not being used for anything yet. It isn’t “active” in the way the Victoria line was during transition. Night Tube to the Circle has always been planned from late 2021, once the Circle and buffer sections are completed. |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Sept 7, 2019 19:36:29 GMT
I guess up to SMA5 would be detecting non-communicating trains, track points, balises, etc for follow up. Does this mean that once SMA3 is commissioned with all trains and train operators settled in, then SMA 4 & 5 can be commissioned within a few months, ahead of schedule?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 7, 2019 21:55:53 GMT
SMA’s 4 & 5 have pencilled in dates that are several months apart.
Just because the equipment is installed, it dosen’t mean that all the testing is complete. You have to keep in mind that testing can only be done when the 4LM bods get exclusive access to the railway - and given that SMA5 includes Earls Court, West Kensington, Lillie Bridge depot, Triangle sidings and High Street Kensington; there’s a fair amount of moves that need to be tested alongside the basic mainline running.
I don’t imagine we’ll be racing ahead just because the entire fleet and all drivers are passing routinely through SMA3.
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Post by goldenarrow on Sept 13, 2019 18:48:32 GMT
Now that I’ve travelled over SMA 2 a number of times, some observations.
Heading Southbound from Finchley Rd is somewhat slower on the way to Swiss Cottage (Disused), will wait to see if this persists after the migration boundary has moved North as there was a similar cautionary speed uptake between Latimer Road and Wood Lane when SMA 0.5 went live.
The near dead straight single bore tunnels between Swiss Cottage (Disused), Marlborough Road and Lord’s have all retained their good turn of speed. The latter pair now gets to around 45-50mph judging by the sound of the motors.
Southbound approach to Baker Street is marginally faster over the point work with the 15mph limit now being enforced at the North end of the platform.
Northbound departure from Baker Street is slightly slower with the 15mph enforced until the rear of the train has cleared the diamond crossover for the terminal platforms.
Eastbound and Westbound speeds between Baker Street and Euston Square appear unchanged, although of course there is no approach control.
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Post by graeme186 on Sept 13, 2019 21:19:11 GMT
Now that I’ve travelled over SMA 2 a number of times, some observations. Heading Southbound from Finchley Rd is somewhat slower on the way to Swiss Cottage (Disused), will wait to see if this persists after the migration boundary has moved North as there was a similar cautionary speed uptake between Latimer Road and Wood Lane when SMA 0.5 went live. The near dead straight single bore tunnels between Swiss Cottage (Disused), Marlborough Road and Lord’s have all retained their good turn of speed. The latter pair now gets to around 45-50mph judging by the sound of the motors. Southbound approach to Baker Street is marginally faster over the point work with the 15mph limit now being enforced at the North end of the platform. Northbound departure from Baker Street is slightly slower with the 15mph enforced until the rear of the train has cleared the diamond crossover for the terminal platforms. Eastbound and Westbound speeds between Baker Street and Euston Square appear unchanged, although of course there is no approach control. Agree with all of the above observations and would like to add: - The slower speed southbound between Finchley Road and Swiss Cottage (disused) is especially noticeable - The noticeable higher speed when travelling Southbound over the Grand Union Canal bridge south of Lords (disused) - The noticeable higher speed when running into terminal platforms 1 and 4 at Baker Street. In respect of Baker Street, has the decision now been made not to progress with restoring a south to north reversing facility in Platform 3? Track alterations had been previously indicated as being required and I had envisaged this would have been undertaken in advance of the testing and commissioning for SMA2. |
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Post by d7666 on Sept 13, 2019 23:15:31 GMT
I don’t think it’s running passively across the existing signalling like the Vic did but in SMAs 3-5 where it’s powered up, is there any way of monitoring that it’s running correctly so that any parts or other equipment that haven’t been set up properly or fail shortly after installation can be fixed before that area goes live? Well the information from site is being transmitted to Hammersmith but not doing anything at that end. Only the people at Hammersmith would know if it’s being monitored or not all I can say is after being in the new rooms it’s definitely leaving the sites Put it like this, it is incoming to Hammersmith but not into the control room. It does not appear on the control room work station SMCs. I sit in front of one for my day job, more or less have a work station to myself, at least while several signallers desks are not used yet. I don't know what, if anything, happens with data from yet to go live SMA. If I remember I'll mither someone on the subject. |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Sept 14, 2019 2:24:33 GMT
….. In respect of Baker Street, has the decision now been made not to progress with restoring a south to north reversing facility in Platform 3? Track alterations had been previously indicated as being required and I had envisaged this would have been undertaken in advance of the testing and commissioning for SMA2. A new track layout north of the station was postponed, along with several others, until resignalling was completed, but last I knew it would provide reversing in platform 3 instead of platform 2. However, with no recent mentions of this, I wonder if it has been dropped completely as an economy measure. |
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Sept 14, 2019 5:09:06 GMT
Well the information from site is being transmitted to Hammersmith but not doing anything at that end. Only the people at Hammersmith would know if it’s being monitored or not all I can say is after being in the new rooms it’s definitely leaving the sites Put it like this, it is incoming to Hammersmith but not into the control room. It does not appear on the control room work station SMCs. I sit in front of one for my day job, more or less have a work station to myself, at least while several signallers desks are not used yet. I don't know what, if anything, happens with data from yet to go live SMA. If I remember I'll mither someone on the subject. This has been happening all year! Traffic Circular 2 said "From start of traffic on Tuesday 15 January 2019, Shadow Mode Running (SMR) will be in place in the SMA0.5 to SMA5 areas (inclusive)" which is all the Circle Line and Earl's Court area. |
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Post by goldenarrow on Sept 14, 2019 12:03:45 GMT
graeme186 and jimbo , You're probably right about Baker Street being mooted. Apart from the bay road at Tower Hill being made bi-directional and the reinstatement of the diamond crossover West of Earls Court, most of the end state layout works have mostly involved renewal or removal. Even then, the plan has changed several times, Liverpool Street and East Ham were due to be plain lined like Farringdon but both look set to stay on with East Ham having had a skeleton renewal relatively recently. The terminal platforms at Moorgate were originally going to be demoted to siding status although I think that has also been shelved (mercifully!).
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