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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 16:42:34 GMT
I am interested in finding out more about the changeover on the Central Line from Standard stock to 1960 stock. My understanding is that the Central was the last line to lose its Standard stock. Am I right? Does anyone know when the last of the Standard stock was finally withdrawn from the Central?
As regards the 1960 stock, was this identical to the 1959 stock introduced on other LT lines or not? If not, how did it differ?
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Post by superteacher on Mar 6, 2017 17:03:33 GMT
I am interested in finding out more about the changeover on the Central Line from Standard stock to 1960 stock. My understanding is that the Central was the last line to lose its Standard stock. Am I right? Does anyone know when the last of the Standard stock was finally withdrawn from the Central? As regards the 1960 stock, was this identical to the 1959 stock introduced on other LT lines or not? If not, how did it differ? The 1960 stock was the intended replacement for the Standard stock on the Central. Three trains were ordered, which ran on the Central. During this time, it was decided to order a batch of trains virtually identical to the 1959 stock, which was to be called 1962 stock. However, as the Standard stock on the Central was in such a poor condition, the 1959 stock went to that line first. Once the Standard stock was replace on the Central, the 1959 stock were transferred to the Piccadilly line, which had its last Standard stock replaced in 1964. However, the final line to use Standard stock was the Northern City, which kept them until 1966. |
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Post by countryman on Mar 6, 2017 17:16:52 GMT
Apparently the 59ts stock was fitted with a 'motor generator alternator' set, the 62ts was fitted with a 'motor alternator rectifier' set. The two types could apparently be coupled and operated together, but I have no idea if this actually happened.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 6, 2017 18:21:10 GMT
Standard stock was still in use on the Central line in 1980, if you knew where to look.
Only twelve motor coaches of 1960 stock were built, and were formed with a similar number of standard stock trailers to form six four-car units (three eight-car trains). They were later converted to ATO to test the technology on the Woodford Hainault shuttle, in advance of completion of the Victoria Line. They ran as four car trains on the shuttle, until each pair of trailers was replaced by a single 1938 stock trailer c1980.
At some point they were converted back to manual driving, and were finally ousted by the 1992 stock, although one of them worked the Ongar shuttle for a year or two longer, until that closed in 1994.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 6, 2017 19:08:46 GMT
Apparently the 59ts stock was fitted with a 'motor generator alternator' set, the 62ts was fitted with a 'motor alternator rectifier' set. The two types could apparently be coupled and operated together, but I have no idea if this actually happened. It definitely happened. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 21:41:32 GMT
The 1960 stock also had big windows and pull down ventilation flaps inside, which were subsequently utilised on the 1967 stock build.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 6, 2017 22:48:15 GMT
The 1960 stock also had big windows and pull down ventilation flaps inside, which were subsequently utilised on the 1967 stock build. Here's a picture of 1960ts driving cars at Hainault (with 2 x Standard stock trailers in a right state)  And here's a picture of a 1967ts prior to service introduction.  There are indeed a lot of similarities with the window configuration. Manufacturers for the 1960ts were Cravens of Sheffield and the 1967ts, Metro Cammell of Birmingham. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 6, 2017 23:02:28 GMT
The 1960 stock also had big windows and pull down ventilation flaps inside, which were subsequently utilised on the 1967 stock build. Here's a picture of 1960ts driving cars at Hainault (with 2 x Standard stock trailers in a right state) Moving the trip-cock reset from a rope in a tube on the cab front to an internal mechanism doesn't half improve the aesthetic! |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 6, 2017 23:47:05 GMT
Here's a picture of 1960ts driving cars at Hainault (with 2 x Standard stock trailers in a right state) Moving the trip-cock reset from a rope in a tube on the cab front to an internal mechanism doesn't half improve the aesthetic! I thought it was a cobweb......  |
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Post by programmes1 on Mar 7, 2017 18:07:38 GMT
The 1960 stock also had big windows and pull down ventilation flaps inside, which were subsequently utilised on the 1967 stock build. Here's a picture of 1960ts driving cars at Hainault (with 2 x Standard stock trailers in a right state) And here's a picture of a 1967ts prior to service introduction. There are indeed a lot of similarities with the window configuration. Manufacturers for the 1960ts were Cravens of Sheffield and the 1967ts, Metro Cammell of Birmingham. Whistlekiller thanks for that picture of the 1960 TS words fail me. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Mar 10, 2017 13:04:08 GMT
Standard stock was still in use on the Central line in 1980, if you knew where to look. Only twelve motor coaches of 1960 stock were built, and were formed with a similar number of standard stock trailers to form six four-car units (three eight-car trains). They were later converted to ATO to test the technology on the Woodford Hainault shuttle, in advance of completion of the Victoria Line. They ran as four car trains on the shuttle, until each pair of trailers was replaced by a single 1938 stock trailer c1980. At some point they were converted back to manual driving, and were finally ousted by the 1992 stock, although one of them worked the Ongar shuttle for a year or two longer, until that closed in 1994. 3910/11 was never converted to ATO,it was the rheostatic brake test train for years. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 14:03:16 GMT
Very interesting posts. Am I correct in thinking that in the early days the 1960 stock might have been liveried in red with light grey roofs?
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 10, 2017 14:11:28 GMT
Very interesting posts. Am I correct in thinking that in the early days the 1960 stock might have been liveried in red with light grey roofs? No that was done to the preserved train in recent times by the Cravens Trust |
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Post by miff on Mar 10, 2017 18:39:02 GMT
Two 1960 stock trains, the ones used on the Ongar branch, were painted red by LUL during their final few years of service. CHT preserved one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 15:37:04 GMT
Thank you for the replies. So the 1960 stock, apart from the later ones used on the Ongar branch, was all unpainted aluminium, right?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 11, 2017 16:28:12 GMT
So the 1960 stock, apart from the later ones used on the Ongar branch, was all unpainted aluminium, right? Indeed. And the standard and 1938 stock trailers were painted silver to match. |
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North End
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Post by North End on Mar 11, 2017 19:25:41 GMT
Thank you for the replies. So the 1960 stock, apart from the later ones used on the Ongar branch, was all unpainted aluminium, right? Yes. The two red units (3906 and 3908) were painted as a heritage attempt some time around the late 1980s/early 1990s. The 1960 stock motor cars were originally built as unpainted. Of course, the Standard stock, and later 1938 stock, trailers were painted to match DM cars as far as possible. One such unit (3902 if I remember rightly) reached as the 1990s in this condition, but by this time was being used for spares and was eventually scrapped. |
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Post by miff on Mar 12, 2017 9:34:06 GMT
Yes but ... The 1960 stock cars themselves (all DM) were delivered unpainted and stayed that way until four of them (2 units, including trailers) were painted red in 1990. Two DMs also became part of the Track Recording Train (with a 1973 stock trailer) and were painted in a special livery, since modified to something more corporate. The original trailers were pre-'38 standard stock (red) and were repainted silver to 'match' the unpainted DMs. It was a poor match. In the late 70s/early 80s these worn out trailers were replaced with 1938 stick trailers repainted in a 'modified silver' (aka white) in another attempt to match the unpainted DMs. Perhaps they should have painted the DMs white at that time to match the trailers  |
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Post by ruislip on Mar 25, 2017 21:55:57 GMT
The 1960 stock also had big windows and pull down ventilation flaps inside, which were subsequently utilised on the 1967 stock build. Here's a picture of 1960ts driving cars at Hainault (with 2 x Standard stock trailers in a right state) And here's a picture of a 1967ts prior to service introduction. There are indeed a lot of similarities with the window configuration. Manufacturers for the 1960ts were Cravens of Sheffield and the 1967ts, Metro Cammell of Birmingham. Wasn't the '67 taken at Ruislip depot? I used to have that postcard in my collection. |
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on May 7, 2017 10:29:19 GMT
There's a picture of 1960TS at Crouch Hill on the now lifted line from Finsbury Park to Finchley.
Are you sure the Victoria Line stock was fitted with trip cocks? I don't think it was as it was built for ATO and din't ork on other lines apart from the odd trip to Acton Works.
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Post by programmes1 on May 7, 2017 11:36:10 GMT
There's a picture of 1960TS at Crouch Hill on the now lifted line from Finsbury Park to Finchley. Are you sure the Victoria Line stock was fitted with trip cocks? I don't think it was as it was built for ATO and did not work on other lines apart from the odd trip to Acton Works. There was more than the odd trip to Acton Works. They were fitted every time they left the Victoria line as the SB starter at Finsbury Park would not clear unless one was fitted. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on May 7, 2017 12:27:50 GMT
There's a picture of 1960TS at Crouch Hill on the now lifted line from Finsbury Park to Finchley. Are you sure the Victoria Line stock was fitted with trip cocks? I don't think it was as it was built for ATO and din't ork on other lines apart from the odd trip to Acton Works. Any chance of posting that picture Roy? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 7, 2017 12:33:38 GMT
There's a picture of 1960TS at Crouch Hill on the now lifted line from Finsbury Park to Finchley. When and why, and what was towing it on that unelectrified line? Are you sure the Victoria Line stock was fitted with trip cocks? I don't think it was as it was built for ATO and din't work on other lines apart from the odd trip to Acton Works. The Hainault/Woodford shuttle had been the test bed for ATO, and after the Victoria Line was commissioned it remained operating in ATO until the 1980s, using a mixture of 1960 and 1967 stock. The 1967 stock units were exchanged with the Vic from time to time, presumably via Finsbury Park and the link at Ruislip depot. I recall seeing one passing through Hyde Park Corner on such a transfer. Although not running in passenger service on the Piccadilly, they needed tripcocks to make the trip during normal operating hours. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on May 12, 2017 10:06:05 GMT
Before the Ruislip link was opened the 67TS transferred via Ealing Broadway.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 11:43:51 GMT
The Vic Line changeovers were transferred via Ealing Broadway right up to the last ones in 1984. I photographed several of them.
The route was NP depot - Finsbury Park (Vic to Picc) - Ealing Broadway (Dist to Cent) and then to Hainault, and vice versa.
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