Use of platform 2 at Leytonstone for Epping services

This makes sense except that the two occasions I have been on very early trains, I had got the first Epping train from Tottenham Court Road, and it still used platform 2 rather than platform 3.

Yes. It arrives at LES at 06.12

It is too simple to postulate that, being in tunnel and not exposed to the elements, they don't get so rusty?

Actually I think it was a Leytonstone duty.

It is mostly still there, although obviously it doesn't go to Holborn siding anymore.

Owing to the absurdities of Night Tube, Train 20 stables in Loughton sidings at 23:19 on a Saturday evening.

At 03:04 Sunday morning train 20D enters service from White City sidings and for reasons which I cannot explain its trip number is given in the timetable as trip 2.

Anyway, it works to platform 4 and then runs to Loughton platform 3. It then runs to Ealing Broadway platform 5, then to Hainault (platform 1) via Newbury Park. At 06:48¾ it runs to Marble Arch, departing at 07d38¾ for the siding. It then runs empty, passing Marble Arch station at 07:49½, to Liverpool Street siding, passing Liverpool Street station at 08:02¾. It then runs empty back to Marble Arch, passing Liverpool Street at 08:12¾ and Marble Arch at 08:26. It then runs back to Liverpool Street siding (presumably the other siding this time), still empty, passing Marble Arch at 08:34¼ and Liverpool Street at 08:47½. It finally re-enters service at Liverpool Street at 08:56¼ and runs to White City platform 3, arriving at 09:21½ to form the 09:29½ Epping service.

I'm not sure that's true, actually, unless I've been believing a complete myth all these years?

Rails go rusty remarkably quickly and you need to run a train over them every so often. The wheels of the train will help to reduce rust build up, which can insulate train wheels from track circuits, causing trains to be invisible to the signalling, ruin the ride, make noise and so on. I think it also helps to keep points in good order if they get moved a bit, hence, in part, their usefulness in tunnels.

Route retention (and perhaps more importantly route learning) is surely part of it, but I don't think that's the main purpose, unless the RAIB is as gullible as I am (and they have been known to make mistakes):


Over on another forum, mrfs42 sums up some of the issues of rusty rails very nicely: link.

Indeed You are, of course, aware of the famous incident at Aldersgate in January 1955, but others may find it interesting.

Aldersgate was the home of a brand new push button desk which rather ingeniously permitted the signalman to select a route and then, once the route had been set, pre-select another route, even if that route was in conflict with the first. Once the first route had been released, the second was set automatically by the interlocking machine, meaning that the following route could be set up instantly, not only when the signalman had noticed that the first route had been used and selected another. It also, of course, takes the work load off a bit.

On the morning of 24th January a train was routed out of one of the layby sidings that existed at the time onto the main line. The signalman then selected the through route on the main line, to be set after the train from the sidings had completed its move. The train from the sidings began to move and operated the appropriate track circuits as it made its way out of the siding. Unfortunately, because of rust on the rails, the track circuits bobbed, which is to say that the electronics detected the train occupying the track circuits and then incorrectly detected the train as having cleared the track circuits, when in fact it was still passing over them. This was caused by the rust on the railhead insulating the train wheels from the track. This re-established a flow of current to the relay, which switched. And so the first route was released and the second one - requiring the points normal - was set whilst the train was still passing over the points. It derailed. Although it was empty and travelling at a low speed, the possibility of this happening to a heavily loaded train at high speed was obvious to everybody.

The delta track circuit was developed. This track circuit is generally positioned 40' in advance of the point where the longest train using the line will be clear of all points. When a route has been selected, the back lock on the points levers is made dead until the delta track circuit is operated, when it is released and the points may be moved. In this way, the points cannot be moved until the train has been positively detected at a position beyond the points themselves, and not simply should the controlling track circuit become unoccupied. As mrfs42 mentions in the thread I linked above, delta track circuits themselves require reasonably clean rails to operate.

Exactly why this forum is such a great place!

I was always under the impression that it was an 'alter-ego' term for the WTT 'RR' which stood for 'Run if Required'. Just like 'Sonia' isn't the real name of the DVA on the 92s

Definitely "runs when required".

In real life there's a certain amount of crossover between preventing rusty rails, keeping the routes tested and in working order, and keeping knowledge of drivers (and signallers) refreshed.

I'd say route knowledge is probably the least important of the three, simply because there's nothing set in stone which guarantees a driver will cover a route during a given period. For example, even if a particular crossover has a booked move over it every day, that doesn't mean every driver will get to cover the route if only one depot on the line is booked to cover the duty. Likewise, a typical emergency crossover has signalled routes in both directions, therefore for route knowledge to be kept fully refreshed it would need the driver to cover the route in both directions - perhaps more combinations of moves in a more complex area. Finally, there are all sorts of real-life reasons why a given driver might go for a long period of time without covering the relevant duty - mafia, mutual changeovers, being pulled off the duty for any reason, sick, annual leave, special leave, etc etc etc.

Leytonstone having the benefit for a train op in need of a PNR of having the public gentleman's restroom in the middle of Platform 2

Agreed, only issue being that it's closed most of the time due to vandalism!

When I first joined the company (white city training centre days), the term 'rusty rail' was just train side jargon, as is the case with language, it has become the norm and people forget the original term. Most RR moves were done OOS and were used as guard driving trips. They'd go over seldom used crossovers - I remember going up to L22 on northern line - but the onus was on killing 2 birds with one stone, route retention for the guard and possibly t/op and for train movement over the points, but it was also used for the control rooms 'service snapshot' at peaks to show the was the right amount of trains in service. The timetabled RRs were then headed for depots and sidings once the snapshot was taken.

The route retention has always thrown up the dilemma that is the need for a pilotman (person). Every year on block training, we go other route knowledge and possibly do some moves that we haven't been over. You do the necessary, sign yourself off then a month later you find yourself required to do a move that you are not confident with. Competence assurance supposedly assures that you are ok with all moves, so it goes there is no need for a pilotman. However, you ask for one, as you are supposed to do, and the manager says "are you saying you're not competent?", it is a veiled threat and most feel pressured into doing the move, but a pilotman is an industry 'fail safe'. You stand your ground and the manager then checks your training log and points out you signed yourself off training just a month previous. So, if the driver gives in, why do we still need a pilot? I witnessed this at West Ruislip once, the driver pointed out that being human, we are at the mercy of confidence and it shouldn't matter if he'd done the move a week, month, year before, at that point he was not confident to do the move and was erring on side of safety in order to prevent the risk of an accident. He wasn't trying to get out of work, just wanted a pilot!

Oh yes.