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Post by ducatisti on Feb 24, 2017 11:05:19 GMT
Another ticket/barrier question.
I was coming back from a do via Farringdon. I have a paper NR season ticket to "London Terminals". My trains depart from KX
Going into automatic, I put it into the gates at Farringdon, and it was accepted.
When I got down to the platform, I thought about it, and touched in at the reader on the station.
AIUI Farringdon isn't "London Terminals" (hence why I bought an oyster PAYG "ticket")
Am I wrong? (that it is deemed London Terminals even though it isn't)
It's clearly not a terminus, but do some trains terminate there? (and thus is "London Terminals")
Is it just a limited number of codes on the magnetic strip just allows it to open?
Magic pixies?
I'll be more curious when they open the connection to put the great northern suburbans through there.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 24, 2017 12:03:58 GMT
"London Terminals" is just a slightly misleading name for the station group that includes the main central London termini plus a couple of other central London National Rail destination stations. The full list of stations currently included is: - Blackfriars
- Cannon Street
- Charing Cross
- City Thameslink
- Euston
- Fenchurch Street
- King's Cross
- Liverpool Street
- London Bridge
- Marylebone
- Moorgate
- Old Street
- Paddington
- St. Pancras
- Vauxhall
- Victoria
- Waterloo
- Waterloo East
So Farringdon is not the only through station - City Thameslink, Vauxhall and Waterloo East also see no terminating trains during normal working, and Blackfriars obviously has both terminating and through services. |
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Post by saphil on Feb 24, 2017 13:17:23 GMT
London Terminal tickets are not valid at Farringdon (unless they include plus High Speed). I guess the OP got lucky!
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Post by ducatisti on Feb 24, 2017 13:29:23 GMT
thanks all - I assume that I would have "got lucky" as there wasn't enough information spaces on the ticket to have something about it? Why would it be allowed if + High Speed? (don't think you could fit a Javelin down there?  ) From Chris' list that looks like Farringdon is the only NR station inside main termini to be excluded. How odd... |
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Post by saphil on Feb 24, 2017 13:46:10 GMT
Why would it be allowed if + High Speed? This was a change made a couple of years ago. There are posters about this validity in the Network Rail section of Farringdon Station. I never understood why it happened though  |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 24, 2017 14:12:18 GMT
I think the bar on Farringdon is deliberate to provide a cordon sanitaire between north and south to keep TfL happy, so that holders of London terminals tickets have to buy a Z1 add on to cross from north to south. HS1 is an exception though, as uniquely they are valid at (some) terminals on both the north and south sides, and it was considered reasonable that travellers might need to transfer between them (if for instance they had to take a train to St Pancras because their London Bridge train was cancelled, or vice versa.
Whether the same logic will apply on Crossrail for tickets with validity to both Waterloo and Paddington (i.e from everywhere west of a line from Birmingham to Portsmouth inclusive) remains to be seen
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 24, 2017 14:14:18 GMT
"London Terminals" is just a slightly misleading name for the station group that includes the main central London termini plus a couple of other central London National Rail destination stations. The full list of stations currently included is: - Blackfriars
- ..............
[li]Waterloo East
So Farringdon is not the only through station - City Thameslink, Vauxhall and Waterloo East also see no terminating trains during normal working, and Blackfriars obviously has both terminating and through services. Old Street and St Pancras (Low level) also have no scheduled terminating services. I also discovered through absent-mindedness that a London Terminals ticket works the barriers at Baker Street, presumably because of the historic Metropolitan/Great Central through ticketing agreement. Likewise, it seems that any "London terminals" ticket will work the barrier lines giving access to the National Rail platforms at any of the stations you listed, whether or not a "permitted route" exists from the other station named on the ticket. "Permitted routes" can be quite complicated - for example, the guru on such matters, Barry Doe, has remarked that a season ticket from Southampton to London Terminals is not only valid to all the former SR terminals via Clapham Junction or Waterloo East, as is well known, but it is also valid via Petersfield or Brighton as well as the direct route via Basingstoke, and also to Paddington (via Bramley). And of course at all intermediate stations on those routes. If you buy a hardware product as versatile as that in computing, motoring, or white goods, you would get a bulky handbook singing the praises of all the clever functions it has, and how to use them. But I would hazard a guess that most season ticket holders have no idea on what routes their tickets are valid, and frequently buy tickets they do not need - e.g if someone holding a Southampton/London season ticket needs to go to Brighton or Reading. |
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Post by phil on Feb 26, 2017 20:13:47 GMT
Does Farringdon count as a valid "London Terminals" for passengers starting their journeys on the MML (Midland Main Line)?
Given such passengers previously had a NR service to Moorgate (via Farringdon) in the past and Farringdon is the nearest open NR station to Moorgate, such a move would make sense - especially as you would still have the north / south firebreak so to speak between Farringdon and City Thameslink
<<superteacher: abbreviation explained.>>
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Rich32
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 1,506 
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Post by Rich32 on Feb 26, 2017 22:10:27 GMT
Does Farringdon count as a valid "London Terminals" for passengers starting their journeys on the MML (Midland Main Line)? Given such passengers previously had a NR service to Moorgate (via Farringdon) in the past and Farringdon is the nearest open NR station to Moorgate, such a move would make sense - especially as you would still have the north / south firebreak so to speak between Farringdon and City Thameslink <<superteacher: abbreviation explained.>>In short, no. As described in Chris M post up thread, Farringdon is not part of the London Terminals family (with the notable exception of High Speed tickets). The conditions of carriage also explain that the London Terminal is only the one (or one's) relevant to the route, in your example St Pancras. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 27, 2017 2:49:15 GMT
The most common MML tickets (through to Bedford) are, in fact, issued as 'London Thameslink', not 'London Terminals', and so are valid from the Elephant/London Bridge/Blackfriars and through the core. However, as mentioned, tickets to/from London Terminals are not valid at Farringdon (and Barbican, and Moorgate).
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 27, 2017 12:29:50 GMT
London Terminals tickets are valid to Moorgate, but only via Great Northern not LU.
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Post by ducatisti on Feb 27, 2017 14:32:23 GMT
I wonder what they will do when great northern suburban trains go through the Thameslink tunnel?
(Was it valid Farringdon - Moorgate via NR when that line was still there? - presumably)
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 27, 2017 15:08:57 GMT
London Terminals tickets are valid to Moorgate, but only via Great Northern not LU. Well... I was over generalising for simplicity. The truth is that there are lots of different permutations and easements for London Terminals tickets, and those from the GN side are indeed valid to Moorgate - and also Old Street, Angel (for Essex Road) and King's Cross via the Northern line and Highbury & Islington and King's Cross or Finsbury Park via the Victoria line as a hangover from when the NCL was closed at evenings and weekends. Likewise there are currently lots of different easements in place at the south end of the Core due to the ongoing Thameslink upgrade works. |
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