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Post by rheostar on Jan 10, 2017 9:24:42 GMT
From what I've gathered, the rule is that if there are 3 or more consecutive closed stations that are underground, the service must be suspended in that area. However it seems that there is a plan to avoid this - presumably by putting staff into necessary stations to keep lines open. Indeed there is no mention of anything affecting the Northern line in TfL's information, which if the "3 stations and suspend" rule was in place would be suspended everywhere south of Golders Green/East Finchley. I think you're referring to my post over on RUK? I think, though I'm not 100% that if the stations are staffed, but not fully to the normal legal level they can still evacuate people off a train. So the station is technically closed, but the assisting of passengers off the train and out of the station can be still be done. .... if need be! So whilst there might be a token number of staff at Hampstead, and Belsize Park, The trains can still,run through, albeit non stopping. Obviously at the bigger more complex stations this might not be possible. Yep, you're right. The stations might be closed, but if there's a member of staff on a station it can still be used as an evacuation point. |
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Post by jimini on Jan 10, 2017 11:52:59 GMT
Chris M, what was the actual state of things on the Central in the pm peak? The messages on teletext and the website were confusing to say the least. Saw that BG, Mile End and Wanstead were closed, and also Chigwell for some reason I opted to walk in the morning from South Woodford. Took 2.5 hours but at least I knew when I'd be arriving at the office. Worked wonders for the Fitbit step count too  I walked up to Liverpool Street at just after 4pm to see what the Liv St. > Epping service was like - this is what the TfL website was advertising at the time. No queue to get in, empty eastbound platform, trains were Epping 2, Epping 4, Hainault 6, so certainly a good service considering. Epping train pulled in, picked up about 30 of us, then ran fast to Stratford, then fast to Leytonstone, then all stations beyond that. Quickest commute home I think I've ever had!! As you (stapler) say, Wanstead was closed according to local announcements. Can't speak for the other (actual) underground stations on the Hainault loop. Having said that and judging by Chris's comments, things weren't quite so rosy a couple of hours later... |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 10, 2017 12:01:08 GMT
Chris M, what was the actual state of things on the Central in the pm peak? The messages on teletext and the website were confusing to say the least. Saw that BG, Mile End and Wanstead were closed, and also Chigwell for some reason I opted to walk in the morning from South Woodford. Took 2.5 hours but at least I knew when I'd be arriving at the office. Worked wonders for the Fitbit step count too I walked up to Liverpool Street at just after 4pm to see what the Liv St. > Epping service was like - this is what the TfL website was advertising at the time. No queue to get in, empty eastbound platform, trains were Epping 2, Epping 4, Hainault 6, so certainly a good service considering. Epping train pulled in, picked up about 30 of us, then ran fast to Stratford, then fast to Leytonstone, then all stations beyond that. Quickest commute home I think I've ever had!! As you (stapler) say, Wanstead was closed according to local announcements. Can't speak for the other (actual) underground stations on the Hainault loop. Having said that and judging by Chris's comments, things weren't quite so rosy a couple of hours later... Bethnal Green and Mile End were closed as they're Section 12s with minimum staffing levels but we were stopping at Leyton as it's "open section" and can be left unstaffed. Are you sure they went straight through? |
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Post by jimini on Jan 10, 2017 13:04:33 GMT
I opted to walk in the morning from South Woodford. Took 2.5 hours but at least I knew when I'd be arriving at the office. Worked wonders for the Fitbit step count too I walked up to Liverpool Street at just after 4pm to see what the Liv St. > Epping service was like - this is what the TfL website was advertising at the time. No queue to get in, empty eastbound platform, trains were Epping 2, Epping 4, Hainault 6, so certainly a good service considering. Epping train pulled in, picked up about 30 of us, then ran fast to Stratford, then fast to Leytonstone, then all stations beyond that. Quickest commute home I think I've ever had!! As you (stapler) say, Wanstead was closed according to local announcements. Can't speak for the other (actual) underground stations on the Hainault loop. Having said that and judging by Chris's comments, things weren't quite so rosy a couple of hours later... Bethnal Green and Mile End were closed as they're Section 12s with minimum staffing levels but we were stopping at Leyton as it's "open section" and can be left unstaffed. Are you sure they went straight through? Yep, 100%. Would have been at ~1630. Driver announced that would be the case before we left LST too. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 10, 2017 13:37:17 GMT
Just checked the Central Line Twitter, Leyton reopened at 18:29 although why it was shut is beyond me as its not a Section 12.
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Post by piccboy on Jan 10, 2017 15:27:08 GMT
Just checked the Central Line Twitter, Leyton reopened at 18:29 although why it was shut is beyond me as its not a Section 12. Could have been a Fire alarm or OPO monitor fault. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 10, 2017 15:36:05 GMT
It was included in the list of closed stations on Twitter at 10:37 yesterday so probably not a fire alarm and its a Category B platform so we can self dispatch.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 10, 2017 15:45:37 GMT
Likely to do with availability of staff to lock and unlock the station. They don't have to be staffed during the day but they do have to be secured overnight. It may be that no-one was available to open the station before a certain time or close it after another. Unfortunately I haven't currently got the time to read through the logbooks to find out.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 10, 2017 16:08:01 GMT
I've read Leyton's logbook. Nothing relating to the station being closed.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 10, 2017 21:09:40 GMT
My journeys yesterday were Mudchute to Woodford Green arriving about 19:10 and Woodford to Mudchute, departing around 21:30-22:00 (I think, Oyster wont let me log in to check)
My usual route for this journey is DLR to Stratford, Central line to South Woodford then the 179 or W13. I got to Stratford and found that I couldn't get near the eastbound Central line platform so took TfL rail to Ilford (which was no more sardine like than usual) and caught the 179 from there. I got lucky with trains (the fast to Ilford arrived 2 minutes after I got to the platform for example) so I arrived at my destinateion 30 minutes early!
On the way home, I checked on the website and saw an Epping to Liverpool Street service was being advertised so a friend dropped me at Woodford on her way home. I confirmed on entering the station that a service was still running to Stratford. When crossing the footbridge I saw a chap in a hi-vi identifying him as "Duty manager - trains" and a younger woman whose LU hi-vi didn't state her job title. They confirmed that there were at least two more trains heading west, the first one might terminate at Leytonstone but if so there would be onward services from there - probably one waiting - and advised me to take that service. This train was due to leave in about 7 minutes iirc.
About 3 minutes before it arrived the woman double checked where I was travelling to and when I said Stratford she again said, take the first train and change at Leystonstone, if necessary, there will a train there to Liverpool Street if this one doesn't go all the way. I caught this train and when we arrived at Leytonstone we were informed it was terminating there (platform 2). The DMI indicated several further trains to Liverpool Street, the first being in about 2 minutes from platform 3. There were about 20 of us waiting on the platform for it. I overheard two drivers talking, they understood that the service was still running to Liverpool Street.
About a minute before the train on P3 was due in it changed to terminates here, and it did terminate there, meaning there were about 20 of us on the platform that I could see. The next of at least 5 advertised Liverpool Street trains was due in about 6 minutes. Before it arrived the station staff suddenly stated that there were no more westbound trains today - surprising a t/op who was waiting to take over a train and so who promptly went to (I presume) contact control, while we were herded down the stairs past someone who was very clearly impatient to close the gate to the platform. No advice was offered regarding onward travel, one person was apparently trying to get to Elephant and Castle.
At Stratford, other than the gates to platform 3A being closed, there was no obvious indication that there was even a strike on from what I saw en-route to the high-level DLR platforms.
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Post by stapler on Jan 10, 2017 21:55:45 GMT
What chaos... all the info I saw indicated there was service on the WB to Liverpool St about then.
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Post by North End on Jan 11, 2017 7:19:43 GMT
while we were herded down the stairs past someone who was very clearly impatient to close the gate to the platform. What I would say is that on strike days, Monday being no exception, the staff that do turn up really get royally messed about. Apart from likely working a full shift with bare minimum staffing levels and having to deal with a massive amount of grief from punters, once finish time comes it can be hard to get away as some management will do everything possible to cajole (for that I mean bully) staff into staying on. Speaking from experience, eventually one has to put one's foot down and say "enough's enough", even if this means closing a station or screwing a train down in an inconvenient location. A company with good employee relations would ensure this situation didn't arise, but London Underground can't do good employee relations to save its life, that's why there are strikes in the first place unfortunately. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 11, 2017 10:55:33 GMT
Chris M - don't know who the chappie in the DMT hi-vis was but it must be pretty old as we've not had DMTs for over five years
Leytonstone Platform 3 is usually the eastbound platform, Grove Green Road side of the station, you can reverse off there but its rare. Do you mean Platform 1, the other half of the island platform on the Church Road side?
If the TOp was on the phone next to the stairs they're talking to the DTSM on the desk in the Traincrew Accommodation building.
Around 10pm I was on my way eastbound up to Epping, Wood Lane called me on the radio to ask if I was one of the night duty drivers, when I said I wasn't they told me that after I got to Epping I was to take the train to Loughton and into the sidings. When I got to Loughton a "Liverpool Street" was on the dot matrix after a "Leytonstone", I got back to Leytonstone just after 11pm, two of my colleagues were talking to a passenger on the platform but I was hurrying for my bus so I didn't pay much attention to the dot matrix.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 11, 2017 12:05:57 GMT
I do mean platform 1 at Leystonstone, sorry!
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Post by Chris M on Jan 11, 2017 23:41:25 GMT
Having finally managed to get into my journey history on Oyster, I find that I touched in at Woodford at 21:44 and tapped out at Leytonstone at 22:11, then in again at Stratford at 22:35.
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Post by stapler on Jan 12, 2017 8:26:13 GMT
Chris M, hope you called the helpline to have that recorded as 1 journey, not 2!
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Post by Tomcakes on Jan 12, 2017 14:48:16 GMT
I noticed that the TfL website said that
- passengers who are obliged to seek an alternative route, or make more than one journey, will not be reimbursed the excess
- passengers who are subject to delayed journeys (due to staff shortages - an issue clearly within the control of TfL), will not be reimbursed as they usually are
What justification do TfL give for this?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 12, 2017 17:03:13 GMT
Having finally managed to get into my journey history on Oyster, I find that I touched in at Woodford at 21:44 and tapped out at Leytonstone at 22:11, then in again at Stratford at 22:35. I've just checked Trackernet, the last Liverpool Street train from Leytonstone was T408 at 22:02 ex Hainault. After that there were half a dozen trains that started out with Liverpool Street as their destination but later changed to Leytonstone, the last one was T406, 22:34 switched between Newbury Park and Gants Hill. Not sure if they would have registered as Liverpool Street on the dot matrix boards but that's what they were according to Trackernet |
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Post by Chris M on Jan 12, 2017 17:18:49 GMT
I guess that the train I was on from Woodford must have arrived at Leystonstone just after the 22:02 departed, as I was on the platform several minutes before being told to leave the platform. There were certainly multiple trains advertised as heading to Liverpool Street being displayed on the DMI when station staff told us there were no more, although the next one due in had changed to "terminates here".
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 12, 2017 18:01:33 GMT
T607 departed Woodford 21:58, arrived at Leytonstone 22:04. At that point there were two "Liverpool Street" trains on the Epping branch and one on the Hainault although obviously they were switched to Leytonstone later.
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