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Post by jimini on Jan 6, 2017 17:38:01 GMT
Hello all,
Just wanted to discuss this one quickly (without any politics getting involved please!). The TfL website currently says:
I remember a similar strike (station staff) back in 2005/6 maybe, where there seemed to be some sort of loose rule about how many deep level stations were closed before a service suspension became necessary, and what the exact rules and regs are these days?
So for example, how many deep level stations can be shut on the deep level section of the central line before it will become necessary to close it from (I guess) White City <> Leytonstone?
Will projected service patterns become clearer on Sunday night once staff haven't booked on and therefore these sorts of decisions can be made maybe?
Thanks in advance, all.
-Jim.
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Post by domh245 on Jan 6, 2017 17:52:59 GMT
From what I've gathered, the rule is that if there are 3 or more consecutive closed stations that are underground, the service must be suspended in that area. However it seems that there is a plan to avoid this - presumably by putting staff into necessary stations to keep lines open. Indeed there is no mention of anything affecting the Northern line in TfL's information, which if the "3 stations and suspend" rule was in place would be suspended everywhere south of Golders Green/East Finchley.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 6, 2017 18:49:57 GMT
From what I've gathered, the rule is that if there are 3 or more consecutive closed stations that are underground, the service must be suspended in that area. However it seems that there is a plan to avoid this - presumably by putting staff into necessary stations to keep lines open. Indeed there is no mention of anything affecting the Northern line in TfL's information, which if the "3 stations and suspend" rule was in place would be suspended everywhere south of Golders Green/East Finchley. I think you're referring to my post over on RUK? I think, though I'm not 100% that if the stations are staffed, but not fully to the normal legal level they can still evacuate people off a train. So the station is technically closed, but the assisting of passengers off the train and out of the station can be still be done. .... if need be! So whilst there might be a token number of staff at Hampstead, and Belsize Park, The trains can still,run through, albeit non stopping. Obviously at the bigger more complex stations this might not be possible. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 7, 2017 7:22:09 GMT
From what I've gathered, the rule is that if there are 3 or more consecutive closed stations that are underground, the service must be suspended in that area. However it seems that there is a plan to avoid this - presumably by putting staff into necessary stations to keep lines open. Indeed there is no mention of anything affecting the Northern line in TfL's information, which if the "3 stations and suspend" rule was in place would be suspended everywhere south of Golders Green/East Finchley. There's no mention of any of the lines apart from the two that are 100% Section 12s, the Victoria and the W&C. They can only put staff on stations where they've been familiarised, I've been told that has been made harder by swapping the 32 Groups for 97 Areas. Pre-Fit-for-the-Future staff would have been familiarised on a Group of 3-5 stations, now an Area can be just one station. For example when I joined the Tube in 1997 Paddington was part of a Group with Edgware Road (Met) and Bayswater so I was familiarised at all three stations but under FFTF Paddington is an Area on its own. Ditto Liverpool Street, Victoria, Kings Cross, etc. |
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Post by jacks on Jan 7, 2017 10:06:05 GMT
Areas are also part of cover groups, maybe the same doesn't apply to all staff and cover groups but I was familiarised at the eight stations that I could potentially end up working at during a cover week.
Don't know how clearer the situation will be on Sunday evening as you don't have CSA shifts booking on after 18:00 anyway as far as I'm aware, but whether the CSS or CSM grades turn up for the 23:00 night shifts will have an effect.
I'm curious as to why they don't expect a service on the West Ruislip branch of the Central - these stations aren't below ground with minimum numbers?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 7, 2017 10:57:07 GMT
Areas are also part of cover groups, maybe the same doesn't apply to all staff and cover groups but I was familiarised at the eight stations that I could potentially end up working at during a cover week. Don't know how clearer the situation will be on Sunday evening as you don't have CSA shifts booking on after 18:00 anyway as far as I'm aware, but whether the CSS or CSM grades turn up for the 23:00 night shifts will have an effect. I'm curious as to why they don't expect a service on the West Ruislip branch of the Central - these stations aren't below ground with minimum numbers? Thanks for the info on stations, not quite how it was when I was a SA. RMT TOps at West Ruislip and White City are holding a separate strike over the sacking of a West Ruislip TOp who had an aggravated SPAD in White City sidings. They've called for people not to book on between 03:00 hours on Monday 9th January 2017 and 02:59 hours on Tuesday 10th January 2017. Whether the ASLEF TOps observe the picket line is another matter although whether there will be a picket line at all is uncertain as only 19 out of 22 voted in favour of a strike at White City and 14 out of 17 at West Ruislip. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 7, 2017 15:23:51 GMT
Last ditch talks have just ended without agreeement. Strike is definitely ON.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 16:34:57 GMT
Anyone know out of interest what the position will likely be at Earls Court and High Street Ken? Clearly Earls Court is pretty important given the branches coming together and it being on Z12 boundary. Of course if it is open there may be other issues with crowding, but that will have to be managed on the day.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 7, 2017 16:49:06 GMT
Anyone know out of interest what the position will likely be at Earls Court and High Street Ken? Clearly Earls Court is pretty important given the branches coming together and it being on Z12 boundary. Of course if it is open there may be other issues with crowding, but that will have to be managed on the day. Depends how many staff turn up on the day. Simple as that I'm afraid. I'll be striking that's for sure. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 16:57:11 GMT
Anyone know out of interest what the position will likely be at Earls Court and High Street Ken? Clearly Earls Court is pretty important given the branches coming together and it being on Z12 boundary. Of course if it is open there may be other issues with crowding, but that will have to be managed on the day. Depends how many staff turn up on the day. Simple as that I'm afraid. I'll be striking that's for sure. Thanks for the quick reply. No indeed, was merely asking on the off chance there was a known contingency (which of course is again completely in the hands of what happens on the day). Here is to the strike passing off without incident and in a well mannered way for all concerned, with a sensible resolution to come. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 7, 2017 17:12:28 GMT
I certainly want a resolution asap.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 20:20:58 GMT
The RMT strike planned for White City and West Ruislip drivers has been cancelled.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 7, 2017 20:55:28 GMT
According to the "Fit for the Future – Stations Station by station review - District Line" Earl's Court is in Cover Group B with all the stations on the Wimbledon branch except for Wimbledon while High Street Kensington is in Cover Group C which includes all the stations from there to Embankment apart from Victoria (please correct me if I'm wrong).
High Street Ken is not a section 12, no minimum staffing level but Earl's Court has a minimum staffing level of 6, which I guess is 1 station supervisor/customer service manager/whatever they're called these days plus five CSAs.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 7, 2017 21:49:06 GMT
TSSA have held fire on the strike following an improved offer. They will put it to their reps and decide in the morning whether to join the RMT, who are still going to strike.
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Post by dmncf on Jan 7, 2017 21:59:01 GMT
I'm surprised that Heathrow Terminal 5 Station will be closed. Am I right in remembering that the station has a quirk, in that it is staffed by Heathrow Airport Limited staff instead of LU staff?
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 7, 2017 23:04:33 GMT
I'm surprised that Heathrow Terminal 5 Station will be closed. Am I right in remembering that the station has a quirk, in that it is staffed by Heathrow Airport Limited staff instead of LU staff? A lone Supervisor works there. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Jan 8, 2017 12:20:25 GMT
TSSA reps have rejected offer, so they will join in strike with the RMT.
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Post by SunSeeker on Jan 8, 2017 13:03:38 GMT
Anyone know out of interest what the position will likely be at Earls Court and High Street Ken? Clearly Earls Court is pretty important given the branches coming together and it being on Z12 boundary. Of course if it is open there may be other issues with crowding, but that will have to be managed on the day. Earls Court staff numbers have dropped significantly since FfTF, a couple of people missing and they will surely drop below minimum numbers. Used to be one of my favourite places to work. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 14:39:53 GMT
Thanks to aslefshrugged and aldino re the Earls Court information, and of course Tubeboy for keeping us all up to date!
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Post by chris11256 on Jan 8, 2017 15:23:26 GMT
Thankfully my boss has given me permission to work from home. Although if Tower Hill is open, i'll be going in.
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on Jan 8, 2017 16:14:17 GMT
There is a LUL Station supervisor at T5.
Edit. Sorry this has already been answered by Tubeboy
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londoner
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Post by londoner on Jan 8, 2017 23:44:33 GMT
Everything is closed!  |
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Post by jacks on Jan 9, 2017 7:31:11 GMT
The RMT strike planned for White City and West Ruislip drivers has been cancelled. Makes me laugh how now at present, the West Ruislip to North Acton section of the Central line is the only part being advertised that IS operating  |
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Post by stapler on Jan 9, 2017 8:20:58 GMT
Also on the Central Line, the main lines reversing at Liverpool St. Presumably the frequency is determined by the capacity of reversing there ---whats that, about 15tph?
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 9, 2017 10:09:19 GMT
Also on the Central Line, the main lines reversing at Liverpool St. Presumably the frequency is determined by the capacity of reversing there ---whats that, about 15tph? Reversing via the west end cross over/mainline shunt, so yes, I'd imagine it's about that. District, Northern, Jubilee, Bakerloo and Metropolitan running end to end skipping stations/tipping out as required. Circle, H&C, Piccadilly and Victoria selected trains running all the way through, but out of service. Nothing at all out on the W&C. |
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Post by 35b on Jan 9, 2017 10:10:44 GMT
Everything is closed! Having walked from Kings Cross to Waterloo, I'm not sure I agree with the smiley. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 9, 2017 10:22:57 GMT
Walked from Clapham Junction to Kensington - quite a nice walk but I wouldn't want to do it every day.
Later on even Clapham Junction had to be closed for a while, which would have really kiboshed my plans.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 10, 2017 0:24:08 GMT
This evening on the Central, control staff, station staff and train operators all seemed to have a different idea about what was happening - which wasn't very useful at all.
The train describers at Leytonstone were ascribing the cause of the disruption to "|dustrial action" which is a new term on me!
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 10, 2017 0:59:46 GMT
This evening on the Central, control staff, station staff and train operators all seemed to have a different idea about what was happening - which wasn't very useful at all. The train describers at Leytonstone were ascribing the cause of the disruption to "|dustrial action" which is a new term on me! Speaking with colleagues the same was true of most lines and most stations. Uncertainty about what was actually running, and where trains were stopping, was probably the most reliable part of the day. Personally I was tickled by the fact that Temple - a regular closure as part of the overtime ban - was open near enough all day. Best service it's had in weeks!  |
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Post by stapler on Jan 10, 2017 8:21:06 GMT
Chris M, what was the actual state of things on the Central in the pm peak? The messages on teletext and the website were confusing to say the least. Saw that BG, Mile End and Wanstead were closed, and also Chigwell for some reason
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