Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 11:50:09 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 11:50:09 GMT
Back in the day, when the guard in the last carriage had the doors, was there anything else he controlled either solely or in conjunction with the driver? Rear lights? Whistle? Brakes? Signals?
|
|
|
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 12:40:29 GMT
Post by philthetube on Jan 5, 2017 12:40:29 GMT
The guard had an emergency brake, he also would set up the PTI on approach to a reversing point. That is, at least on the Northern Line PTI = Positive train identification, not platform train interface.This allowed signallers and controllers to identify trains on their diagrams, both number and where it was going. (No such luxuries on the MET)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 13:44:06 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 13:44:06 GMT
Thanks. But was the guard's emergency brake the same emergency brake that passengers could activate? (Never quite understood this. Whether the passenger handle itself activated the emergency brake or if it activated a signal to the driver/guard to apply the brakes?)
|
|
|
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 14:01:15 GMT
Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 5, 2017 14:01:15 GMT
Whether the passenger handle itself activated the emergency brake or if it activated a signal to the driver/guard to apply the brakes?) Both times I have operated the passenger alarm (on a 1972 stock on the Jubilee line, and on a 455 at Waterloo) the brakes came on immediately. But things are different on OPO trains. |
|
|
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 14:06:05 GMT
Post by philthetube on Jan 5, 2017 14:06:05 GMT
No, the guard applied the brakes, there was a handle at the other guards position which passengers could access but I never knew it used. It was lockable at one time but I think there were incidents with someone forgetting to unlock it.
Going back before my time I think passengers did have access to a brake but someone else will have to tell you more.
One more important job the guard had was to make the tea for the driver.
on older stocks the driver had to stop when the pass alarm was sounded on more modern the brake applies automatically, the driver can override this but must find out the reason for the alarm first.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,744 
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 14:14:01 GMT
Post by class411 on Jan 5, 2017 14:14:01 GMT
One more important job the guard had was to make the tea for the driver. When they got to a staff changeover/termination point, presumably. I remember guards but I don't ever recollect seeing one with a kettle! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 17:51:09 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 17:51:09 GMT
Thanks. But was the guard's emergency brake the same emergency brake that passengers could activate? (Never quite understood this. Whether the passenger handle itself activated the emergency brake or if it activated a signal to the driver/guard to apply the brakes?) It depends. In simple terms, current rolling stock, passengers pulling a passenger alarm will basically just signal to the driver (some of the new stock is a bit more clever and will apply the brake if within station boundaries). On older stock, the trains had a 'main line' and a 'train line'. The main line is the air in the tanks in which you draw off to use the air for brakes etc. The train line is the air within the 'brakes'. Pulling the emergency brake (as a driver) or passenger alarm would just dump all the air from the train line, which would slam on the emergency brakes as the air holds the brakes off. |
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 5, 2017 18:05:58 GMT
Back in the day, when the guard in the last carriage had the doors, was there anything else he controlled either solely or in conjunction with the driver? Rear lights? Whistle? Brakes? Signals? Guard had controls for heaters, car lighting. An emergency brake. On some Stock (R Stock) a handbrake. Was responsible for checking rear tail-light(s) were lit; and rear destination set correctly. One more important job the guard had was to make the tea for the driver. When they got to a staff changeover/termination point, presumably. I remember guards but I don't ever recollect seeing one with a kettle! As a crew on the District Line, we often made tea 'on the road' - Tower Hill EB was a usual place. - driver takes Guards tea can with him (tea bags already in can) - boiling water applied to both tea cans in Staff room at drivers end - quick stir of contents between Tower Hill and Aldgate East - driver stops train at entry point to platform at Aldgate East, places tea can gently on edge of platform, draws train fully into platform - Guard collects his tea can from platform, which should've been left at precise point where his gangway stopped ! |
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Jan 5, 2017 18:06:07 GMT
The guards position in the passenger car of older stocks had an emergency brake that like the passenger brake were directly linked to the train line air and once pulled could not be overridden until the train stopped whether in a tunnel or between stations. it had to be reset at the point it was pulled.
Train line air was 65lb and once lost the air in the brake reservoir fed by main line air 85lb would put the breaks on. You could not charge the train line air until the brake handle had been reset. In some instance you could release the brakes in individual cars if they would not recharge and release; could not carry passenger.
On the front of the train there were two isolating cocks Red: Main line air, Blue: Train line air. In passenger service both had to be in the upright position hence the training instructors would teach "When its up; its in. When its down; its out". All the trainee drivers were men in those days. If they were down the guard or another member of staff had to ride with the driver.
|
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,744
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 18:26:20 GMT
Post by class411 on Jan 5, 2017 18:26:20 GMT
As a crew on the District Line, we often made tea 'on the road' - Tower Hill EB was a usual place. - driver takes Guards tea can with him (tea bags already in can) - boiling water applied to both tea cans in Staff room at drivers end - quick stir of contents between Tower Hill and Aldgate East - driver stops train at entry point to platform at Aldgate East, places tea can gently on edge of platform, draws train fully into platform - Guard collects his tea can from platform, which should've been left at precise point where his gangway stopped ! That beats my best observation of an unofficial 'comforts of home' transaction, which was many years ago on Southend pier where, whilst walking to the end, I saw the signalman leaning off the steps to his cabin and the train driver holding out the evening paper for him. (At least I presume it was a signalman, although it seems a bit odd that one was needed [or at least, that he needed a cabin mid way down the pier].) |
|
|
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 18:33:01 GMT
Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 5, 2017 18:33:01 GMT
The guards position in the passenger car of older stocks had an emergency brake that like the passenger brake were directly linked to the train line air and once pulled could not be overridden until the train stopped whether in a tunnel or between stations. it had to be reset at the point it was pulled. The Guards position emergency brake could be reset at anytime, using his key (except '38/COP/R38 Stock which didn't require a key to reset) On the front of the train there were two isolating cocks Red: Main line air, Blue: Train line air. Red: for dead-mans valve (train line) Yellow: for tripcock isolation (train line). |
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Jan 5, 2017 19:01:14 GMT
As a crew on the District Line, we often made tea 'on the road' - Tower Hill EB was a usual place. - driver takes Guards tea can with him (tea bags already in can) - boiling water applied to both tea cans in Staff room at drivers end - quick stir of contents between Tower Hill and Aldgate East - driver stops train at entry point to platform at Aldgate East, places tea can gently on edge of platform, draws train fully into platform - Guard collects his tea can from platform, which should've been left at precise point where his gangway stopped ! That beats my best observation of an unofficial 'comforts of home' transaction, which was many years ago on Southend pier where, whilst walking to the end, I saw the signalman leaning off the steps to his cabin and the train driver holding out the evening paper for him. (At least I presume it was a signalman, although it seems a bit odd that one was needed [or at least, that he needed a cabin mid way down the pier].) It is possible to curl up a piece of paper and slip it into the shaft of an Electric Key Token. There are some places in the UK where this method is still used to communicate the latest test match score. |
|
|
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 19:06:36 GMT
Post by tjw on Jan 5, 2017 19:06:36 GMT
Guards on the other Railway had other duties besides the above, I presume the Met. Railway rule book had similar rules.
1. Checking couplings
2. Checking Steam Heat
3. Testing the brake
4. Giving the weight of train to the driver
5. Checking the carriage lighting (turning it on before tunnel sections and off after etc.)
6. Keeping a good lookout especially at Junctions / signal boxes
7. Keeping a journal, recording delays etc.
As for Carriage / Car brakes
Early designs that only had handbrakes, had a passenger alarm that was a string attached to a bell on the locomotive / Guards compartment...
Later continuous automatic brakes came in either Air (single pipe or the modern twin) or Vacuum. The Guard had access in his compartment to a lever that destroyed the vacuum / air, This generally put all the automatic brakes on.
The passengers had access to a chain that opened a valve at the end of the Carriage, this in Vacuum stock was around a ΒΌ in (compared to the 4 in hole the guard could make), so with some stock this would stop the train but in others it would not, this would then rely on the Driver / Guard seeing the pressure change on the gauge (one of the many things he had to keep an eye on). I have not set up the brakes on Airworked stock but I believe that the Passenger alarm is more effective.
There were ways of disabling the brakes on carriages, and generally they could not be used with passengers, onboard but the rule book did give some exceptions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 20:33:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 20:33:30 GMT
Thanks. But was the guard's emergency brake the same emergency brake that passengers could activate? (Never quite understood this. Whether the passenger handle itself activated the emergency brake or if it activated a signal to the driver/guard to apply the brakes?) If you're thinking of stock which had an emergency handle like the one in this photo then yes, it applied the brakes in exactly the same way as the guard was able to from their position. Operation of either the guard's or passengers' emergency handles would discharge the train line pipe ("brake pipe" in more general railway parlance), causing an immediate emergency brake application. If you're picturing the emergency alarm buttons like the ones in this photo then no, all they did was cause an alarm to sound in the driver's cab, and the driver's actions would depend on the location of the train at that moment. Train line air was 65lb and once lost the air in the brake reservoir fed by main line air 85lb would put the breaks on. You could not charge the train line air until the brake handle had been reset. In some instance you could release the brakes in individual cars if they would not recharge and release; could not carry passenger. On the front of the train there were two isolating cocks Red: Main line air, Blue: Train line air. In passenger service both had to be in the upright position hence the training instructors would teach "When its up; its in. When its down; its out". All the trainee drivers were men in those days. If they were down the guard or another member of staff had to ride with the driver. Train line air charges the auxiliary reservoirs, not mainline. Reducing the train line pressure allows train line air to flow from the auxiliary reservoirs to the brake cylinders, applying the brakes. You seem to be describing the principle of the two pipe air brake; conventional stock didn't have this. Up and In/Down and Out refers to them being Cut- in in the up position and cut- out in the down position, not whether the train can remain in service. For example the tripcock would be cut-out during point-to-point (formerly station-to-station) working and certain other procedures with the train still in service. If they're cut out because they're defective then the train would indeed be out of service with a 2nd competent person in the cab. |
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Jan 5, 2017 20:41:34 GMT
Thanks. But was the guard's emergency brake the same emergency brake that passengers could activate? (Never quite understood this. Whether the passenger handle itself activated the emergency brake or if it activated a signal to the driver/guard to apply the brakes?) If you're thinking of stock which had an emergency handle like the one in this photo then yes, it applied the brakes in exactly the same way as the guard was able to from their position. Operation of either the guard's or passengers' emergency handles would discharge the train line pipe ("brake pipe" in more general railway parlance), causing an immediate emergency brake application. In this instance is the handle actually a valve and the handrail part of the brake pipe? (BTW, has anyone got anything to calm metman down after that picture? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 21:35:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 21:35:10 GMT
Thanks wr24, that is exactly the type of old passenger emergency handle I was thinking of, on the handrail before they were all encased in glass.
|
|
|
|
Post by seaeagle on Jan 5, 2017 21:35:15 GMT
On the front of the train there were two isolating cocks Red: Main line air, Blue: Train line air. In passenger service both had to be in the upright position hence the training instructors would teach "When its up; its in. When its down; its out". All the trainee drivers were men in those days. If they were down the guard or another member of staff had to ride with the driver. My instructor taught me that a cock is no good if it's down..................... |
|
|
|
Guard
Jan 5, 2017 21:59:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 5, 2017 21:59:15 GMT
In this instance is the handle actually a valve and the handrail part of the brake pipe? On Stock with pneumatic emergency handles, even 1972 & C Stock, the vertical handrail was the feeder pipe and the alarm handle as a valve, exactly. |
|
