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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 15:43:57 GMT
Hi all, just joined the forum today, but have been reading it with interest for years, and in amazement at the depth of knowledge of the members here.
I joined because I have a few questions I can't find answers to anywere.
BTW, my username is just a happy coincidence. It has nothing to do with the Circle Line, it is simply the translation of the street I live on in Sweden. And is a username I have used on other forums for many years. Yes, I really do live on a street called Innercircle, in Swedish: Innersvängen.
I grew up in Notting Hill in west London and took the tube to school everyday from 1967 to 1978. Mostly on CO/CP and R stock on the Circle and District Lines.
NHG to HSK, Gloucester Road, South Ken and Sloane Square usually direct but often due to Circle Line delays on a Wimbledon to Earls Court via Triangle Sidings then on a Mansion House, Upminster or Barking back through Triangle Sidings to Gloucester Road and beyond. Sometimes, but rarely, when the District was delayed all over, we had to go down into the depths of the spooky Piccadilly Line in Earls Court and take that to Gloucester Road or South Ken.
And have always had an interest in the underground. I have now lived in Sweden since 96 and so have missed out on all the rebuilding of stations in London, and the Jubilee, Crossrail and Overground work.
My first question is this, and probably has a very simple answer. Back in the day lots of tube trains, apart from the actual vehicle number on the metal, had an adjustable three figure number system in the cab. What were these? Were they the equivalent of a train working number i.e. indicating the specific service? Or something else?
TIA
James
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 4, 2017 16:42:41 GMT
Back in the day lots of tube trains, apart from the actual vehicle number on the metal, had an adjustable three figure number system in the cab. What were these? Were they the equivalent of a train working number i.e. indicating the specific service? Or something else? ; What i have learned from this site is that that is exactly what it is. The train normally keeps the same number throughout the day, but at times of disruption they may be swapped over ("reformed"). Train numbers are in octal, for computing reasons, so never have the digits 8 or 9 in them. Most lines start the series at 001, but Circle H&C, Met and Picc services use higher numbers to avoid duplication with the District. Special workings usually in the 700s. The number is still displayed - as seen here on 2009 stock (below the window in the cab door) or here on S stock (above the destination display) |
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Post by stapler on Jan 4, 2017 17:15:25 GMT
The Working Time Tables give each train running number. I used to transcribe them into my diary to check the levels of disruption to the running sequence on the Central Line..
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 4, 2017 18:07:05 GMT
Back in the day lots of tube trains, apart from the actual vehicle number on the metal, had an adjustable three figure number system in the cab. What were these? Were they the equivalent of a train working number i.e. indicating the specific service? Or something else? ; What i have learned from this site is that that is exactly what it is. The train normally keeps the same number throughout the day, but at times of disruption they may be swapped over ("reformed"). Train numbers are in octal, for computing reasons, so never have the digits 8 or 9 in them. Most lines start the series at 001, but Circle H&C, Met and Picc services use higher numbers to avoid duplication with the District. Special workings usually in the 700s. The number is still displayed - as seen here on 2009 stock (below the window in the cab door) or here on S stock (above the destination display) train numbers pre-date any computer input in the timetabling process. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 18:37:17 GMT
What i have learned from this site is that that is exactly what it is. The train normally keeps the same number throughout the day, but at times of disruption they may be swapped over ("reformed"). Train numbers are in octal, for computing reasons, so never have the digits 8 or 9 in them. Most lines start the series at 001, but Circle H&C, Met and Picc services use higher numbers to avoid duplication with the District. Special workings usually in the 700s. The number is still displayed - as seen here on 2009 stock (below the window in the cab door) or here on S stock (above the destination display) train numbers pre-date any computer input in the timetabling process. That's true, but as I understand it, it was the installation of Programme Machines at Parsons Green which required the train numbering on the District line to be redone. Early Programme Machine rolls did not have train numbers on them, but Parsons Green required it. Eight holes was deemed sufficient, permitting train numbers in the range 000-377 in Binary Coded Decimal (with no 8s or 9s, thus 001, 002, ..., 007, 010, 011, ..., 077, 100, 101 ...). To permit all numbers from 0 to 999 to be added to the machine rolls in Binary Coded Decimal would have required 16 holes. According to this source both the District and the Northern lines, at least, required a wholesale renumbering of the train service when Programme Machines were introduced. My history runs out at this point, but it looks like the rest of the Underground followed suit in anticipation of eventually receiving their own Programme Machines and/or for straight standardisation. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 21:15:17 GMT
There is no physical mechanical machines left on LU they have all been replaced by EPM's Electronic Programme Machines as seen on page 60 in that link above but all the old circuitry still remains if you ask me what a waste of time money and effort
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Post by superteacher on Jan 4, 2017 21:17:33 GMT
The Central line was the last line to use 8 and 9 digits, being converted in the early 80's.
On lines where programme machines are no longer used, it should be possible to go back to using 8 and 9. However, for some reason, this hasn't happened.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jan 4, 2017 21:34:36 GMT
The Central line was the last line to use 8 and 9 digits, being converted in the early 80's. On lines where programme machines are no longer used, it should be possible to go back to using 8 and 9. However, for some reason, this hasn't happened. Central line has two such trains annually! 488 & 489, the two Sandites. |
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