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Post by silenthunter on Dec 20, 2016 12:53:23 GMT
The stapleress won't like them. She prefers manual w.c.s with "proper locks"! She'd really prefer to see the ballast through the aperture, like in Mark 1s! WCS? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 20, 2016 13:38:49 GMT
The stapleress won't like them. She prefers manual w.c.s with "proper locks"! She'd really prefer to see the ballast through the aperture, like in Mark 1s! WCS? WCs, I assume. Did British train loos ever have a direct view of the ballast? I thought there was always a P-trap, because 1. It could catch anything you dropped in. 2. Without one it would be rather draughty around the nether regions. 3. Most toilet bowls are made that way anyway, so the railways could buy a standard product rather than require a bespoke receptacle. |
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 20, 2016 16:53:01 GMT
I distinctly remember looking down a toilet pan and seeing ballast below. I seem to think there was a flap though rather than just a permanently open aperture.
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Post by peterc on Dec 20, 2016 17:38:55 GMT
Me too.
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Post by stapler on Dec 20, 2016 18:02:23 GMT
So does the stapleress! Definitely a flap, which AIRI sometimes jammed open. I don't think they were standard WC pans, any more than were those lovely spring-operated basin taps.
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Post by tjw on Dec 20, 2016 19:48:37 GMT
Many toilet pans just had a sprung flap, and yes straight on to the ballast below (or onto the bogie) Others had traps of some sort... The variety of fittings found in railway carriages is amazing.
A friend many years ago once dropped 3 bangers in quick succession down a pan with a broken flap, the train came to a quick halt! This sparked an interest in the rule book, and he became a signalman.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 20, 2016 22:01:48 GMT
A friend many years ago once dropped 3 bangers in quick succession down a pan with a broken flap. Was his doctor aware that your friend's flap was broken at the time?  |
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Post by philthetube on Dec 21, 2016 6:17:50 GMT
Many toilet pans just had a sprung flap, and yes straight on to the ballast below (or onto the bogie) Others had traps of some sort... The variety of fittings found in railway carriages is amazing. A friend many years ago once dropped 3 bangers in quick succession down a pan with a broken flap, the train came to a quick halt! This sparked an interest in the rule book, and he became a signalman. I read this as sausages, it took a minute to work out. It is 6.am. |
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Post by brigham on Dec 21, 2016 9:57:41 GMT
How much of this is 'down the pub' theory? All the MK1s I remember had a water-trap pan. (Usually yellow).
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 21, 2016 10:15:54 GMT
I have certainly seen a flap which, when opened, afforded a view of the ballast below. But not in the UK. Some more modern coaches have flaps, but these lead to retention tanks. (Mark 3 sleepers for example)
In any case, BR coaches had toilets at the vehicle ends, above the bogie. I certainly don't recall seeing a bogie down a toilet (!), and in any case I would assume/hope that waste was not dropped directly onto the brakes etc, but conveyed to a waste pipe further amidships.
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 21, 2016 20:03:50 GMT
Regular Mark 3s still drop onto the tracks. I was waiting at Stratford Platform 11 for a TfL Rail service a few weeks back (Engineering Work) and I saw that there was a tomato plant growing in between the sleepers.
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Post by westville13 on Dec 22, 2016 0:14:13 GMT
The former East German narrow gauge certainly had "aborts" about 20 years ago which allowed you to see the track and ballast as you used them. And I also recall trains to Swanage in the 1950's where the same was true.
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Post by stapler on Dec 22, 2016 8:30:52 GMT
Perhaps I was thinking not of Mark 1s but the motley assortment of stuff Thornton Fields used to provide in the 50s on excursion trains.
Silent Hunter's tomato plant might of course have come from a discarded snack (or even something lobbed at an AGA manager!) rather than "through the system".
Actually, I'm rather surprised the weedkiller train didn't account for it. Saw that piece of apparatus at Chelmsford a fortnight ago, passing through at speed, between two "Garden Sheds", and sending up quite a fog, which I sincerely hope wasn't toxic!
How do LU do weedkilling, BTW?
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Post by domh245 on Dec 22, 2016 10:06:15 GMT
Actually, I'm rather surprised the weedkiller train didn't account for it. Saw that piece of apparatus at Chelmsford a fortnight ago, passing through at speed, between two "Garden Sheds", and sending up quite a fog, which I sincerely hope wasn't toxic! How do LU do weedkilling, BTW? That sounds more like a railhead treatment train than a weedkiller, particularly at this time of year. That fog would have mostly been water, and leaf mulch + whatever stuff is used to help get the mulch off. |
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Post by grahamhewett on Dec 22, 2016 10:56:53 GMT
Recommended - the loo on a Turkish steam hauled branch line from Izmir to Buja c1970 - loo available as a simple hole in the corner of the luggage van.
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 22, 2016 13:42:43 GMT
Recommended - the loo on a Turkish steam hauled branch line from Izmir to Buja c1970 - loo available as a simple hole in the corner of the luggage van. There's a Midnight Express joke here somewhere. |
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Post by peterc on Dec 22, 2016 13:46:34 GMT
I have definitely seen ballast too but it was before I was aware of different models of carriage.
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 22, 2016 14:36:42 GMT
Recommended - the loo on a Turkish steam hauled branch line from Izmir to Buja c1970 - loo available as a simple hole in the corner of the luggage van. There's a Midnight Express joke here somewhere. A dash to the loo after a curry perhaps?  |
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Post by stapler on Dec 22, 2016 14:40:58 GMT
In Izmir more likely a dodgy kebab or a surfeit of figs!
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Post by theblackferret on Dec 22, 2016 16:13:19 GMT
Recommended - the loo on a Turkish steam hauled branch line from Izmir to Buja c1970 - loo available as a simple hole in the corner of the luggage van. If that's Buca & not Buja, then: metro/commuterlooks like things are looking up there & not down the pan. Not a lot there about the Khazi, even he of Khazakstan, of whom whistlekiller2000 kindly provided a photograph in mufti, so we must speculate or research further. As for tomato plants, more likely broadcast, as per apple trees on Uxbridge branch & many a motorway embankment, by birds or possibly foxes. I can't vouch for the washroom behaviour of either, beyond noticing in recent years, when pigeons hop on trains at southern termini, I've yet to see them forming a queue for the facilities, which, as they tend not to form an orderly one for rummaging about for discarded wraps, paninis etc., may tell us something; then again, not. |
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 22, 2016 16:43:14 GMT
This was slap bang in the centre of the sleepers on a track used by through loco-hauled expresses.
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Post by grahamhewett on Dec 22, 2016 17:11:00 GMT
Recommended - the loo on a Turkish steam hauled branch line from Izmir to Buja c1970 - loo available as a simple hole in the corner of the luggage van. If that's Buca & not Buja, then: metro/commuterlooks like things are looking up there & not down the pan. Not a lot there about the Khazi, even he of Khazakstan, of whom whistlekiller2000 kindly provided a photograph in mufti, so we must speculate or research further. As for tomato plants, more likely broadcast, as per apple trees on Uxbridge branch & many a motorway embankment, by birds or possibly foxes. I can't vouch for the washroom behaviour of either, beyond noticing in recent years, when pigeons hop on trains at southern termini, I've yet to see them forming a queue for the facilities, which, as they tend not to form an orderly one for rummaging about for discarded wraps, paninis etc., may tell us something; then again, not. Yes, Buca (tho' the "c" is pronounced as a "j" in Turkish, maybe with a cedilla) - it may be state of the art kit now, but my 1970 trip was behind a wheezing Henschel of c1910 on a rake of ageing 6 wheel stock with the aforementioned luggage van as a wooden 4-wheel vaguely mobile garden shed. [BTW, yes, it was Turkish food - I blame the aubergines myself. When we reached Buca, then a sleepy country town, we ate in a cafe in the main square and I needed once more to visit the facilities. The "Follow me" said the obliging landlord, leading me round a corner where a bicycle was parked. "Jump on". And so the two of us sped off to a remote corner of the town where some of the usual footprint variety of loos were available...] |
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Dec 23, 2016 16:56:27 GMT
Travelling from Vienna Airport (Schwechat) into Town (Landstrasse Hauptstrasse) in 1990/91 the "onboard facilities" flushed directly onto the track via a flap through which ballast,sleepers and rails were clearly visible.
I remember this being a surprise,so presumably had not seen this before in the UK despite having travelled in a wide variety of loco-hauled and SR EMU stock...my recollection is that all UK on-train lavatories had a water-trap-type pan in,as commented upon earlier,yellow porcelain.
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Post by tjw on Dec 23, 2016 19:14:49 GMT
With some further thought, I am sure that all Mk1 corridor stock, as well as Bulleid and Maunsell corridor stock had porcelain with p trap. I am sure the LMS / BR sleeping carriages were the same. Pre-grouping stock had the flaps and sometimes metal pans (SECR). Although with some carriages the original facilities were replaced.
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 23, 2016 21:22:08 GMT
Ahem; I am not sure if anyone can tell, as the camera angle does not quite show what is needed to be seen, but the first link below leads to a photo of a Mk1 carriage toilet as filmed about 5 years ago I'm supplying a link to the photo in case actually making the image visible on this page upsets anyone's sensibilities. citytransport.info/Album/P1100642a.jpgThe image is used on a page from my website that shows many Mk1 carriages - InterCity, local, emu, etc., as filmed by me over the years. The page even includes photos of a certain four carriage 4TC trainset... citytransport.info/Mk1.htmRe: historical times, I am far too young to have personal experience but I understand that the Metropolitan Railway Pullman carriages had toilets that emptied on to the tracks - and were even available for use when travelling through the tunnels between Aldgate - Baker Street - Finchley Road stations. I am unsure about the GWR's City Stock trains which travelled through Metropolitan Railway tunnels between Paddington and Aldgate stations. The only surviving carriages from the fleet have full width compartments so probably did not have toilets at all. However there was more than one batch of trains built for these services and unfortunately there are no known survivors of the later articulated batches. Although none of the 1910 London Tilbury & Southend Railway rolling stock which was used on the Southend Corridor Express trains (Ealing Broadway - Southend On Sea) are still extant, I can recall reading somewhere that these had retention type toilets, which for the era was far in advance of what most (all?) other railways did. Simon |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 23, 2016 22:12:12 GMT
the Metropolitan Railway Pullman carriages had toilets that emptied on to the tracks - and were even available for use when travelling through the tunnels between Aldgate - Baker Street - Finchley Road stations I thought I read a post recently saying that they were locked out of use in the tunnels. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Dec 23, 2016 23:29:55 GMT
the Metropolitan Railway Pullman carriages had toilets that emptied on to the tracks - and were even available for use when travelling through the tunnels between Aldgate - Baker Street - Finchley Road stations I thought I read a post recently saying that they were locked out of use in the tunnels. Grim. How did they do that NF? Was it the guards responsibility to lock the flaps?  |
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Post by stapler on Dec 24, 2016 8:33:31 GMT
TJW, the point about sleeping cars brings to mind the fact as I remember it (and I may be wrong) the lavatories in 2nd class twin berth were at the ends of the cars only, but there was a kind of chute in each cabin, for liquid waste only (marked "No solid waste down here please" or some such). Perhaps someone can refresh my memory!? And was a gazunder provided by BR?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 24, 2016 8:57:57 GMT
the [toilets in the Met's Pullman cars] were locked out of use in the tunnels. Grim. How did they do that? Was it the guards responsibility to lock the flaps? I am neither old enough nor wealthy enough to have ever used the Met's Pullmans, but I assume the Pullman attendant locked the cubicle door. |
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Post by nickf on Dec 24, 2016 9:51:15 GMT
(Text Deleted).....Although none of the 1910 London Tilbury & Southend Railway rolling stock which was used on the Southend Corridor Express trains (Ealing Broadway - Southend On Sea) are still extant, I can recall reading somewhere that these had retention type toilets, which for the era was far in advance of what most (all?) other railways did. Simon When I was using the LTSR line in the early 1960s (steam days), very very occasionally there were obviously extremely old carriages attached to the normal stock. They had route maps on the wall that included the line from Barking through to St. Pancras, and they were also corridor stock with lavatories, a great improvement on the compartment stock that was normal then. I have a feeling that the lavatories drained into retention tanks, but I don't know why I think that: perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I told me. |
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