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Post by Red Dragon on Dec 17, 2016 20:12:11 GMT
Hi, I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the diagram of the area around Edgware Road? Thanks in advance
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Post by seaeagle on Dec 17, 2016 21:59:30 GMT
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Post by Red Dragon on Dec 18, 2016 11:39:31 GMT
Thanks, very useful. Also, I found this diagram online (from Harsig I believe). It mentions F.R.L by Platform 1. Do you know what this means by any chance?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 11:46:09 GMT
Thanks, very useful. Also, I found this diagram online (from Harsig I believe). It mentions F.R.L by Platform 1. Do you know what this means by any chance? Fixed Red Light. Basically what it says on the tin. They're used in sidings and at terminal stations and places to provide a nice bright warning of the end of the line. They're also used to denote other points which trains must not pass. For example, in this instance, I assume the FRL is there to denote the limit of the wrong road shunt move into platform 1 from the main line. Passing the FRL will obviously have you travelling in the wrong direction along the eastbound/outer rail line. LU also got into a habit a while ago of providing them at stations where trains can reverse, at points where trains should not reverse. For example, I am given to understand that there is one at the east end of Dagenham East westbound platform 1. Now trains can reverse at Dagenham East westbound, but the correct procedure is to shunt forward, out of platform 1, along the westbound, to the limit of shunt, change ends, and shunt over to platform 2 via shunt signal FG18 and main running signal FG22. The FRL protects against somebody getting muddled up, changing ends in the platform, and expecting to head east over a trailing crossover, much as at East Ham, for example.
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Post by banana99 on Dec 18, 2016 16:26:18 GMT
Thanks, very useful. Also, I found this diagram online (from Harsig I believe). It mentions F.R.L by Platform 1. Do you know what this means by any chance? As mentioned above it's "Fixed Red Light". These appeared at the "wrong" end of platforms in response to a very serious incident at Camden Town. There a driver boarded the train at the wrong end and proceeded to take the train in the wrong direction head-on towards another train. Fortunately disaster was averted that day, and this was part of the response to help ensure it doesn't happen again.
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Post by Harsig on Dec 18, 2016 20:48:31 GMT
These appeared at the "wrong" end of platforms in response to a very serious incident at Camden Town. There a driver boarded the train at the wrong end and proceeded to take the train in the wrong direction head-on towards another train. Fortunately disaster was averted that day, and this was part of the response to help ensure it doesn't happen again. Except that the incident which prompted their installation actually occurred at Kings Cross on the Piccadilly line. This was some 17 years prior to the Camden Town incident. The fixed red lights were only provided at reversing locations and since Camden Town is not a reversing location no fixed red lights were provided there under the programme of installation. The RAIB report into the Camden Town incident refers to the Kings Cross incident in paragraph 75.
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Post by PiccNT on Dec 18, 2016 23:26:00 GMT
We regularly pass a fixed red light on the Picc.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 23:29:46 GMT
We regularly pass a fixed red light on the Picc. You do?
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Post by PiccNT on Dec 18, 2016 23:35:25 GMT
Yep. When shunt signal WZ11 clears into T5 sidings, we go past FRLWZ11 which is at track level on the left as we pass it.
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Post by tjw on Dec 19, 2016 9:15:42 GMT
Yep. When shunt signal WZ11 clears into T5 sidings, we go past FRLWZ11 which is at track level on the left as we pass it. How interesting, I thought that shunt signals only gave authority to proceed as far as it was clear, but shunt signals can be used in many layouts to allow routes not possible by normal signals so I suppose it is not unique.
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Post by PiccNT on Dec 19, 2016 9:39:34 GMT
TBH, the whole signalling arrangement on the WB approach to T5 is unusual with 4 "X" signals plus a draw up signal plus an illuminated shunt that is suppressed when not showing a proceed aspect.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 15:51:01 GMT
TBH, the whole signalling arrangement on the WB approach to T5 is unusual with 4 "X" signals plus a draw up signal plus an illuminated shunt that is suppressed when not showing a proceed aspect. That is normal for fibre optic shunts with an associated colour light signal or FRL. What do you find unusual about the X signals and draw-up arrangement?
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Post by PiccNT on Dec 19, 2016 23:33:41 GMT
The draw up there is nothing unusual but to have four "X" signals in a row may be unique, until someone tells me otherwise! Most X signals have the relevant cabin code before them like WRX443 but these are just X400, X402a/b/c. Incidentally, we have 5 different varieties of X signals on the line.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 13:42:24 GMT
The draw up there is nothing unusual but to have four "X" signals in a row may be unique, until someone tells me otherwise! Most X signals have the relevant cabin code before them like WRX443 but these are just X400, X402a/b/c. Incidentally, we have 5 different varieties of X signals on the line. X400 is an X signal for a different reason to the other 3. IIRC it is something to do with the tunnel ventilation system on the T5 extension. X399(?) on the eastbound road is an X signal for the same reason as X400. There are 6 consecutive X signals on the eastbound H&C beginning with the starter at Westbourne Park. I'm struggling to think of 5 'varieties' of "X" signal on the Picc: As you mention there is the 'last (or almost last) automatic signal before a controlled area' type - such as WRX443. Floodgate type - e.g. FPX777. And various plain Xs such as X400, which are designated as such for a variety of (often unique) reasons. The only other types that spring to mind are Track replacement (TRX - none on the Picc that I can think of) and Possession (PNX - which is a temporary designation as part of protecting a possession). The only two TRXs I can think of are the eastbound starter at Westbourne Park and the Westbound starter at Royal Oak. PNX signals wouldn't normally be seen by a line-based t/op or i/op.
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Post by PiccNT on Dec 21, 2016 14:48:55 GMT
The X signals by T5 are related to the adjacent evacuation shaft. Yes, the last auto before a controlled area is two, floodgate X signals is three, surface stock detector X signals is four and data collection signals X855 between Manor House and Turnpike Lane and X883 between Wood Green and Bounds Green. These data collection signals are to do with the signalling control at the east end of the line and the need to stop trains entering the section if the signalling system which was then run on an old computer failed, or so I'm told!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 15:04:23 GMT
The X signals by T5 are related to the adjacent evacuation shaft. Yes, the last auto before a controlled area is two, floodgate X signals is three, surface stock detector X signals is four and data collection signals X855 between Manor House and Turnpike Lane and X883 between Wood Green and Bounds Green. These data collection signals are to do with the signalling control at the east end of the line and the need to stop trains entering the section if the signalling system which was then run on an old computer failed, or so I'm told! Ah - well if you're counting the various different reasons for non-prefixed X signals then I would suggest there's 6 'varieties' on the Picc, because (as I mentioned) X402a/b/c are Xs for a different reason to X400 (and X399).
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Post by PiccNT on Dec 21, 2016 15:09:12 GMT
OK, you win :-)
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Post by rummer on Dec 21, 2016 16:27:31 GMT
PiccNT The old signal system you mention was known as metal micky it had less memory than an old spectrum computer consul
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 22, 2016 19:39:17 GMT
Yep. When shunt signal WZ11 clears into T5 sidings, we go past FRLWZ11 which is at track level on the left as we pass it. There are similar examples at Upminster, too. Basically if the previous signal was a colour light the movement authority must be terminated with another colour light, in this case a fixed red light.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 22, 2016 19:47:33 GMT
TBH, the whole signalling arrangement on the WB approach to T5 is unusual with 4 "X" signals plus a draw up signal plus an illuminated shunt that is suppressed when not showing a proceed aspect. Shunt signals associated with a running signal (even if that running signal is a Fixed Red) should always be suppressed if they have not been cleared for the shunt move. It's the same on the Central ljne and a few other places which use fibre optics. As for the four X signals in a row, try the C&H around Paddington' all of which are associated with different things: TRX123, X125, X127, X129, OPX131, OPX133 (EB) The Westbound is similar but one 'A' signal in the island: X134, X130, A128, TRX126. TRX123, X125 and TRX126 relate to the detection of the Royal Oak crossover X127, X129 and X130 relate to the detection of the Paddington crossover. OPX131 has a hold facility controlled by Edgware Road OPX133 is a 'traditional' X signal approaching a controlled area. X134 is associated with a Track Circuit Interrupter associated with Network Rail platform 14 at Paddington.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 22, 2016 20:14:11 GMT
X134 is associated with a Track Circuit Interrupter associated with Network Rail platform 14 at Paddington. I'm intrigued by this. I assume that it's something such that if something in Platform 14 (adjacent to the LU tracks) hits the buffers then signals on LU are put to red as a precaution?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 20:35:07 GMT
Correct
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Post by seaeagle on Dec 23, 2016 7:12:09 GMT
TRX123, X125 and TRX126 relate to the detection of the Royal Oak crossover X125 has only recently become X125, up to a couple of months ago it was A125 but the instruction to drivers was to treat it as an 'X' signal until someone got around to changing the signal plate on it!
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