rincew1nd
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Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 1, 2016 17:51:14 GMT
I've spent today bimbling around London, just for the fun of it.
I was at Olympia earlier today and the District was suspended east of Barking with Severe Delays on the rest of the line. After waiting a while, a member of staff advised that there was "no chance" of a train and I should go via West Brompton. At Earl's Court I enquired and was again told "nah, no Olympia trains today mate!"
With a Severe Delays status I expected to wait a while, if I wasn't doing it for the pleasure of the trip I would have immediately chosen an alternate route (well tbh I wouldn't even have been at Olympia!).
So question 1) When it's all going wrong and everyone is trying to hold together some kind of service in the main line, wouldn't it be better to advertise the service to Olympia as suspended?
After a few hours the service had recovered to Minor Delays with no suspension, and I gather at least one service was diverted to Olympia effectively to reverse it west to east.
Looking now though, the suspension has reappeared out east and we are back to Severe Delays. So question 2) What's occurring at Barking today that is crippling the service so much?
And finally, I noticed on a few occasions that the "service update from the control room at..." was broadcasting a different message to that shown on the TfL webpage. Question 3) Which is the more reliable?
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Post by Colin D on Oct 1, 2016 18:16:57 GMT
Just checked Tfl site and its showing this:
District Part closure
Severe delays
DISTRICT LINE: Saturday 1 and Sunday 2 October, no service between Turnham Green and Ealing Broadway. Piccadilly line trains call additionally at Turnham Green.
District Line: No service between Turnham Green and Ealing Broadway due to planned engineering work. SEVERE DELAYS due to a signal system failure at Barking. Tickets valid on local buses and c2c.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 1, 2016 21:48:06 GMT
This is the second consecutive Saturday where the District line has been decimated by a major signalling failure.
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Post by domh245 on Oct 1, 2016 22:03:33 GMT
This is the second consecutive Saturday where the District line has been decimated by a major signalling failure. I wonder (not making any accusations!) if maintenance and repairs of the existing signalling kit is being cut down with the impending arrival of it's replacement. For example using refurbished components or "bodging" something rather than ordering a new piece. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 22:19:55 GMT
Power Failure at Barking caused by NR cutting through a 11Kv cable effecting control of atleast 3 sites for a change not our fault  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 22:22:20 GMT
This is the second consecutive Saturday where the District line has been decimated by a major signalling failure. I wonder (not making any accusations!) if maintenance and repairs of the existing signalling kit is being cut down with the impending arrival of it's replacement. For example using refurbished components or "bodging" something rather than ordering a new piece. Not true at all, the signalling is being maintained to the same standards and frequency regardless if it is being ripped out soon. e.g Mansion House points being removed next weekend but were fully maintained 2 weeks ago. |
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rincew1nd
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Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 1, 2016 22:25:38 GMT
Power Failure at Barking caused by NR cutting through a 11Kv cable effecting control of atleast 3 sites for a change not our fault : That's gotta make one hell of a bang! |
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Post by jacks on Oct 1, 2016 23:47:51 GMT
And finally, I noticed on a few occasions that the "service update from the control room at..." was broadcasting a different message to that shown on the TfL webpage. Question 3) Which is the more reliable? I'd always go by what's showing on the website or on the ESUBs / service update boards. The PAs have to be updated manually and how accurate they are can depend on how on the ball the supervisor on duty is, or how occupied they are dealing with other stuff. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Oct 1, 2016 23:59:04 GMT
Nah.
Realistically, either can be correct. If the issue affects the station you're at, it's entirely possible that the local PAs are correct, as they'll get information pertinent to the delay (such as cancelled trains) before a line is "officially" suspended or put to delays.
But yes, at other times, it could be that the website is correct, as the local staff may be too busy dealing with any incidents.
Such is life.
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Post by stapler on Oct 2, 2016 8:49:18 GMT
What's ESUBs?
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Post by jacks on Oct 2, 2016 9:14:58 GMT
Electronic Service Update Board
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Post by phoenixcronin on Oct 2, 2016 9:15:20 GMT
Electronic Service Update Board Edit: Whoops posted a few seconds late |
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Post by roman80 on Oct 2, 2016 10:10:26 GMT
Hasn't been a great week all round for the district line. Twice in the morning peak, no service Wimbledon to Parsons Green. Friday morning was a particularly poor effort all round. Rammed full platform at Earls Court circa 730am as five trains arrived from the West and were sent to High Street Kensington when 90 per cent of passengers wanted to head to the city via Victoria. Station indicators at Earls Court need to be replaced also. The current ones belong at the transport museum and the tiny screens cannot be seen unless you are standing under them, impossible in the above situation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 10:51:15 GMT
Hasn't been a great week all round for the district line. Twice in the morning peak, no service Wimbledon to Parsons Green. Friday morning was a particularly poor effort all round. Rammed full platform at Earls Court circa 730am as five trains arrived from the West and were sent to High Street Kensington when 90 per cent of passengers wanted to head to the city via Victoria. Station indicators at Earls Court need to be replaced also. The current ones belong at the transport museum and the tiny screens cannot be seen unless you are standing under them, impossible in the above situation. Go and tell the English Heritage people that |
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Post by rheostar on Oct 2, 2016 11:09:08 GMT
Power Failure at Barking caused by NR cutting through a 11Kv cable effecting control of atleast 3 sites for a change not our fault Oops! |
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Post by decaded on Oct 2, 2016 23:39:46 GMT
I have spent Saturday and Sunday late turns at Barking Cabin,and had it not been for the slightly reduced service intervals,it would have been a damn sight worse than it has been. At 08:27 Saturday morning ,contractors working for NR/c2c managed to sever a main supply cable near East Ham (i'm told) which made the cabin Diagram display continuous red "tracks down" all the way from Bow Road to a point midway between East Ham and Barking , no signal indications,no T.D.'s
,no CCTV,and clocks stopped at 8.27. By the afternoon,a section between West Ham and Plaistow was restored,but other than that it has been blind operation of the signalling between Barking and Bromley both ways all weekend,relying totally on colleagues at Whitechapel and Upminster advising of out-of-step trains etc so as to know whats next and where it should be going.Trackside you wouldnt have noticed any difference. Keeping on top of it has been a challenge at first ,not least because of the lack of the clock on the wall at which we constantly look at to do the train booking sheets........mobile phone clock to the rescue! ,and hope no-one SPADS at East Ham or Bromley because I wouldnt see it with no signal aspects showing (no display !). All platform T.D.'s were wrong,testimount to the number of radio calls I had from drivers saying they noticed at xxx station that it said Upminster when they were going to Barking and vice versa etc..............so,it was still like it when I left tonight,they had a go Sunday morning but it was unsuccessful. Hopefully tonight.....? All in all I think between us all at the East end over the weekend we did our best (as usual) to keep the trains running to time. Kevin
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 7:05:31 GMT
It's all working now
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Post by rheostar on Oct 3, 2016 7:38:37 GMT
I have spent Saturday and Sunday late turns at Barking Cabin,and had it not been for the slightly reduced service intervals,it would have been a damn sight worse than it has been. At 08:27 Saturday morning ,contractors working for NR/c2c managed to sever a main supply cable near East Ham (i'm told) which made the cabin Diagram display continuous red "tracks down" all the way from Bow Road to a point midway between East Ham and Barking , no signal indications,no T.D.'s ,no CCTV,and clocks stopped at 8.27. By the afternoon,a section between West Ham and Plaistow was restored,but other than that it has been blind operation of the signalling between Barking and Bromley both ways all weekend,relying totally on colleagues at Whitechapel and Upminster advising of out-of-step trains etc so as to know whats next and where it should be going.Trackside you wouldnt have noticed any difference. Keeping on top of it has been a challenge at first ,not least because of the lack of the clock on the wall at which we constantly look at to do the train booking sheets........mobile phone clock to the rescue! ,and hope no-one SPADS at East Ham or Bromley because I wouldnt see it with no signal aspects showing (no display !). All platform T.D.'s were wrong,testimount to the number of radio calls I had from drivers saying they noticed at xxx station that it said Upminster when they were going to Barking and vice versa etc..............so,it was still like it when I left tonight,they had a go Sunday morning but it was unsuccessful. Hopefully tonight.....? All in all I think between us all at the East end over the weekend we did our best (as usual) to keep the trains running to time. Kevin It must've been a right mare. I don't know the layout of the Barking area very well, but couldn't the air have been taken off the frame and everything put into through running? |
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Post by decaded on Oct 3, 2016 12:17:56 GMT
Initially a lot of H&C Barking sidings reversers were "taken out",but once the powers that be see you've got things running,despite not being able to "see" a train,the full timetable gets restored.Actually,through running (I take it you mean everything going to Upminster) would mean destroying the entire timetable as the Bay-road reversers would go as would the H&C service.
Next job is to get (hopefully) the cable fault "fixed" (as per modern day parlance)
, west of Hornchurch meaning every single W/B T.D. is lost and has to be re-inserted....but is lost/scrambled again by Whitechapel !
No part of the District signalling equipment can be assumed to be o.k. tomorrow because it is o.k. today !
K.
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Post by rheostar on Oct 3, 2016 13:35:44 GMT
Initially a lot of H&C Barking sidings reversers were "taken out",but once the powers that be see you've got things running,despite not being able to "see" a train,the full timetable gets restored.Actually,through running (I take it you mean everything going to Upminster) would mean destroying the entire timetable as the Bay-road reversers would go as would the H&C service. Next job is to get (hopefully) the cable fault "fixed" (as per modern day parlance) , west of Hornchurch meaning every single W/B T.D. is lost and has to be re-inserted....but is lost/scrambled again by Whitechapel ! No part of the District signalling equipment can be assumed to be o.k. tomorrow because it is o.k. today ! K. Yep, everything going through to Upminster. As I said, I'm not familiar with the Barking area or the H&C TT. With the TDs being lost, I might've been tempted to reduce the H&C and reverse it at Whitechapel, then just run an Upminster to Richmond service. At least then you'd have known where everything was going to. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 14:27:15 GMT
The air was removed from the frames west of Barking so thats Bromley By Bow waste of time having the air on anyway at BBB just another failure mode waiting to happen. Plaistow was removed and i believe the maintainers key was in the panel for West Ham and of course East Ham.
Everything Barking going east is not effected by the fault and should of worked normally.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 3, 2016 14:47:26 GMT
I might've been tempted to reduce the H&C and reverse it at Whitechapel, . I don't think reversal at Whitechapel is still possible now there are only the two platforms? What does "removing the air from the frames" mean? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 15:00:05 GMT
I might've been tempted to reduce the H&C and reverse it at Whitechapel, . I don't think reversal at Whitechapel is still possible now there are only the two platforms? What does "removing the air from the frames" mean? It's definitely still possible to reverse at Whitechapel, but it is a much less favourable location than once it was. There are two trailing crossovers, one to the east of the station and one to the west. East to west reversing is available via a colour light move from the eastbound platform to westbound main (Aldgate East ---> Whitechapel EB platform ---> Aldgate East). And via a mainline shunt using the crossover to the east of the station (Aldgate East ---> Whitechapel EB platform ---> EB mainline ---> Whitechapel WB platform ---> Aldgate East). West to east reversing is available via a colour light move from the westbound platform to eastbound main only (Stepney Green ---> Whitechapel WB platform ---> Stepney Green). The sites under the control of Barking signal box have V style interlocking machines, consisting of vertically positioned levers, with horizontal interlocking bars. The movement of the levers will transmit electrical signals to operate points and and signals. The interlocking bars prevent conflicting moves from being set up. The levers of these frames are ordinarily worked by compressed air. In Barking signal box there is a large push button desk. Pressing a given button will send an appropriate signal to the V frame and compressed air will move the levers, which will move points and clear signals, setting up routes. Entire routes can be set at the push of a button in this way, so that you don't have to operate the points yourself, you just press a button and select a route. You can also pre-select routes, and all that sort of thing. Removing the air from the frame allows the site to be worked manually by a person moving the levers of the V frame themselves, or you can simply lock the frame up so that the site is essentially switched out and the straight route is always set, and the area will work as if it were an automatic signalling area. (Very simplified). |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 15:42:19 GMT
Except West Ham where it has a maintainers panel no frame there
Not only does the frame prevent conflicting moves but in the control circuit know as a lever operation circuit from the desk at Barking to the local sites there is relays which would also prevent this.
On the desk at Barking the buttons have 3 colours Red - no route set and the signal is a danger, Yellow - the signal has been preselected but at danger, and Green - signal has been selected and clear.
Also the signal op has the ability to put the sites into Auto working with a toggle switch behind where they would sit, effectively put the sites into Auto working and with Barking you can have some of the routes in Auto and some in manual or a mixture of the 2.
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