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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 20:00:03 GMT
Hey guys! Following my four-day trip to London last summer, I started writing a novel which takes place there. In order to ensure the accuracy of the story, I'm trying to get my facts on the Underground and the DLR as straight as possible. I've already done a bit of research by myself, but it's far from being completed. So I'd like to ask you for a bit of help on some technical stuff. With only a little bit of extra information, you could already do me a great favour! --- First of all, the following scenario: everyone in London disappears in a split second. (spoiler alert ) Is it true that, for a semi-automatically operated line (e.g. the Jubilee): - all the trains keep running until the next station? - the train doors (plus the platform doors on the Jubilee) open automatically and remain opened? And, for the DLR, is it true that: - all the trains keep running until the next station? - trains headed for a platform already occupied by another train, will come to a halt at a distance of 50 metres from the other train? - the train doors will open at the platform, but automatically close after a set time (a few minutes)? Now, let's say that there's still someone left in the place, and he tries to drive a DLR train. Is it true that: - you need a key in order to operate the PSA panel next to the doors? - this key also fits in the control panel and the door in the front of every carriage? Finally, the general power supply in the country is cut out. I've read something about the Underground being powered separately from the rest of the city, using separate power plants. Does this mean that a LU train could still run normally, in the case of a major power supply failure? And is this also the case for the DLR? --- Only realised how many questions I actually had now that I wrote them down... sorry 'bout that Once again, I'd very much appreciate your help, no matter how much! Thanks in advance
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 20, 2016 20:18:46 GMT
The Underground's own Lots Road Power Station closed in 2002, but much of the electricity for the Underground came from the National Grid long before that.
As far as I am aware the doors on all lines including the DLR are under human control. There is no equivalent of the "dead man's handle" on the DLR. Not so sure about automated tube lines, but I did read of a - possibly apocryphal - story of a Victoria Line train which went off without its driver after he got off to unstick a door.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 20, 2016 20:27:01 GMT
The Underground's own Lots Road Power Station closed in 2002, but much of the electricity for the Underground came from the National Grid long before that. As far as I am aware the doors on all lines including the DLR are under human control. There is no equivalent of the "dead man's handle" on the DLR. Not so sure about automated tube lines, but I did read of a - possibly apocryphal - story of a Victoria Line train which went off without its driver after he got off to unstick a door. Wasn't that when the driver got out of the train in the tunnel for some reason, then the train motored up? There was also the story of the Piccadilly line driver who rested his bag on the traction brake controller. He got out to unstick a door but when he did, the door circuit became complete and because the driver's bag was heavy enoufh to depress the TBC, the train started up and left without him. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/runaway-tube-driver-jailed-1445495.html
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Post by domh245 on Sept 20, 2016 20:58:13 GMT
It'd have been difficult to let a 67TS to run away without someone on board, it was part of the reason why it was designed without cab side doors. As for the original question about how far the train would go, the trains would continue to their Limit of Movement. I think that it would then continue to the next station (or LOM) without needing the driver to press the Start buttons, but I'm not 100% sure. As for the automatic closing, the only stock which does this is the S stock on the District, Metropolitan, Circle, and Hammersmith & City Branches, which currently aren't automatically operated, but may well be by the time your novel is set (with any luck! 2050 perhaps )
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 15:58:28 GMT
Is it true that, for a semi-automatically operated line (e.g. the Jubilee): - all the trains keep running until the next station? I think semi-automatically operated is a slightly confusing term, stick to ATO (Automatic Train Operation). Yes, I believe so. Unless it's a Northern line train traversing the Kennington loop, but it would be out of service anyway. - the train doors (plus the platform doors on the Jubilee) open automatically and remain opened? No, train doors currently have to be opened by the train operator. However, there are rumours that I've heard around about of a possible future upgrade where the doors will open on arrival, unless explicitly prevented from doing so by the driver placing the doors under their control. And, for the DLR, is it true that: - all the trains keep running until the next station? Yes. - trains headed for a platform already occupied by another train, will come to a halt at a distance of 50 metres from the other train? Again, as with ATO lines, the trains will keep running until they get into a station. If they cannot, because their station is currently occupied, they will wait until the train ahead departs and they can occupy the platform. There will be no need to restart, once the train ahead moves off, the train will take its place as soon as it is able to do so. However, obviously the train ahead won't move off until everyone's back in the room. I can't comment on your 50 m figure, but I kind of suspect it won't be an absolutely universal value, but I could be wrong. - the train doors will open at the platform, but automatically close after a set time (a few minutes)? Er, oooh. In my experience, I think that the DLR's doors can be opened by the PSA like on the Underground lines, where the member of stuff opens all of them, or they can be released for passenger operation like on many mainline services. I'm not sure whether they can be released automatically. You're probably right that they can but I don't know. The self-closing thing, yeah, they'll close to keep the elements out, but they won't lock by themselves, so you'll be able to reopen them. Now, let's say that there's still someone left in the place, and he tries to drive a DLR train. Is it true that: - you need a key in order to operate the PSA panel next to the doors? - this key also fits in the control panel and the door in the front of every carriage? I don't think Joe Public can do whatever he likes on a DLR train without a key, but I'd rather we didn't go too deeply into the security procedures on the DLR or any other network, for reasons that I hope are obvious. Finally, the general power supply in the country is cut out. I've read something about the Underground being powered separately from the rest of the city, using separate power plants. Does this mean that a LU train could still run normally, in the case of a major power supply failure? And is this also the case for the DLR? As others have said, LU is supplied from the National Grid, and so is the DLR, so if the grid is down the Underground is down. Not sure how you'd take the whole grid down and yet leave LU's power supply intact even if it did have its own power plants, but I'm sure you've thought about that But no, it couldn't run normally. They are looking at providing batteries on the NTfL that good the train to the next station, though, I believe. Not sure about on any currently-existing stock, though. As far as I am aware the doors on all lines including the DLR are under human control. There is no equivalent of the "dead man's handle" on the DLR. Not so sure about automated tube lines, Well obviously the dead man feature is still there when the train's being driven manually, but I don't think there's anything for Auto, unless you count not being able to have the cab doors open. but I did read of a - possibly apocryphal - story of a Victoria Line train which went off without its driver after he got off to unstick a door. Well it's certainly been repeated in such reputable publications as London Reconnections, but I'm not sure I can improve on that in terms of a citation.
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Post by Chris M on Sept 21, 2016 22:44:30 GMT
On the DLR, the doors are released automatically when the train is at a station but they do not open until the door open button on/by that door is pressed. When operating the train from a panel adjacent to a door, the PSA always uses the same button a passenger would to open that door.
DLR doors do not automatically close, and once opened there is no way to close them without using either a panel by one of the doors or the desk at one end of a car. Both require a key to make them active.
The panels by the door have three buttons, "COD", "CTD" and "ROD". I presume that these stand for "Close other doors", "Close this door" and "Re-open doors". I do not recall seeing the ROD button ever being used so do not know whether it releases or actually opens the doors and, if the latter, whether that is all doors or just those opened on the last cycle.
A DLR train running in automatic operation that has movement authority and on which all doors are closed will automatically move to the limit of that authority unless the PSA has selected "I" mode on the panel (or presumably desk). I guess that "I" means "Inhibited" or something similar. I suspect that moving the selector to "I" when the train is moving will initiate an emergency stop, but I've never observed this.
DLR trains can be operated in fully manual mode, but at slow speed only. This can only be done from a desk at one end of a car (maybe at the end of a train only, I don't know). To access this desk you need to open the cover with a key, which is a Yale-style key not the large L-shaped one used to operate the door panels. The desk must then be made active, which is done by means of a Yale-style key but whether it is the same one that opens the cover or not I don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 11:39:47 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Sept 22, 2016 19:13:45 GMT
"Fully manual mode" was just bad terminology on my part, I was referring to what the RAIB report calls "emergency shunt mode" - i.e. slow speed movement only with little to no signalling protection or input.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 15:37:30 GMT
Thanks a lot guys, so far your answers have gotten me a whole lot further in the story! I've got another question, though: does anyone know what the emergency lighting in the DLR looks like? (Especially compared to the regular lighting?)
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