class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 14, 2016 17:10:25 GMT
On older diagrams there are two 'capacitors' on the Central Line: one at Hainault, and one at Epping.
Can anyone explain what they represented?
<<rincew1nd: Thread title clarified>>
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 17:22:48 GMT
Well they represented the fact that these were termini for most services. So Hainault is the clearest-cut example. The Hainault to Woodford service was a self-contained shuttle, trains didn't run Grange Hill - Hainault - Fairlop or vice versa. And again, similarly, all trains terminated at Hainault via Newbury Park, end of the line, no carrying on to Grange Hill. I mean, there may have been some exceptions, but the main point is to show Hainault as basically the end of the line for most purposes. Whereas now, of course, three trains per hour do carry on.
Similarly Epping was the terminus of the line for most services. Now I know when the Epping Ongar service was relegated to peak hours only, the unit made its way up to Epping from Loughton and I think it may even have been in service, but it's to show people that basically you're gonna be on an Epping train and there's no point waiting at Oxford Circus for that Ongar through train, because it ain't coming.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 14, 2016 17:54:39 GMT
Thanks for that, tut.
I had been told (many, many, years ago) that it was because there was no physical connection and you had to change trains onto a separate section of track. At the time I was told that (age about 6) it didn't seem too absurd, although as time went by the explanation seemed ropier and ropier - even if it is, partially, correct.
It's always been a sadness to me that I never travelled to Ongar on the Central Line.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 14, 2016 17:57:49 GMT
There were various ways the situation could have been presented, such as two linked interchange blobs, ( as at Woodford) or even showing the shuttles in a different colour to the main Central Line, but the designers of the map clearly decided this was the clearest way of showing that there was no through service.
The same convention has been used at Ormskirk, Kirkby, and, when they too were the limit of electrification, Royston and Rock Ferry
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Post by superteacher on Sept 14, 2016 18:33:44 GMT
Just to clarify for those who don't understand the thread title or the OP, the electrical symbol for a capacitor can be found by clicking the link below: www.rapidtables.com/electric/electrical_symbols.htmWhilst there are those of us who got it, it is advisable to avoid cryptic thread titles. If you want to confuse us, there is the quiz section!
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 14, 2016 23:51:17 GMT
The same convention has been used at Ormskirk, Kirkby, and, when they too were the limit of electrification, Royston and Rock Ferry Kirkby: Ormskirk: and this rather nice old pic. The "Emergency Connection" in the foreground has now gone:
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 15, 2016 7:14:35 GMT
Thanks for the above, Rince1wnd (and for correcting the thread title - it's so annoying when you misspell in the title; let me press you to a candied jellyfish).
The pictures above show pretty much what I imagined happened at Epping, although I could never come up with a reason why they would do such a thing.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 15, 2016 7:55:01 GMT
As the platform at Epping is only long enough for one train, the Ongar shuttle actually used the other platform, so the trains were side by side, rather than the more convenient end-on arrangement used at Ormskirk and Kirkby.
As to why they did it, the extension of electrification to Ongar was done on the cheap, and couldn't cope with eight car trains. The Hainault shuttle was used as a test bed for ATO, which meant operations on the branch had to be self contained.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 15, 2016 8:29:44 GMT
Thanks for the above, Rince1wnd (and for correcting the thread title - it's so annoying when you misspell in the title; let me press you to a candied jellyfish). The pictures above show pretty much what I imagined happened at Epping, although I could never come up with a reason why they would do such a thing. Providing you are the person who starts a thread, you can always amend the thread title by editing the first post in that thread,
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Sept 15, 2016 8:43:29 GMT
Now I know when the Epping Ongar service was relegated to peak hours only, the unit made its way up to Epping from Loughton and I think it may even have been in service...... It was indeed in service and there was a time where the shuttle stabled at Hainault off-peak, hence the ability to catch a through train from Woodford to Ongar (which I did on occasion, and has come up on another thread recently as well). The tracks at both Hainault and Epping always allowed through running and there were no end to end buffer stops which surprised me the first time I saw them as, like 411, I was anticipating trains end to end. Quite how they'd have got the shuttle onto the section, that being the case, didn't occur to me at the time as I was only 5 or 6.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 15, 2016 9:13:45 GMT
When I was younger, I also used to take the map diagrams as a representation of what the site actually looked like. I remember seeing the North London Line on the map between Willesden Junction and Axton Central and thinking "that's such a long gap between stops!" I was somewhat disappointed when I realised that it actually wasn't that far!
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 15, 2016 9:43:24 GMT
Thanks for the above, Rince1wnd (and for correcting the thread title - it's so annoying when you misspell in the title; let me press you to a candied jellyfish). The pictures above show pretty much what I imagined happened at Epping, although I could never come up with a reason why they would do such a thing. Providing you are the person who starts a thread, you can always amend the thread title by editing the first post in that thread, An advantage of Pro-Boards, then. You can't (well, couldn't the last time I checked) do that on the more common Jelsoft forum software.
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Post by trt on Sept 15, 2016 9:54:07 GMT
Why capacitors? Resistance is futile.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Sept 15, 2016 10:29:31 GMT
Why capacitors? Resistance is futile.
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Post by stapler on Sept 15, 2016 13:38:28 GMT
I think even in ATO days, the Woodford-Hainault was never entirely cut off. I remember one evening when there was a fire at South Woodford when Loughton was served via Hainault, the train reversing at Woodford. A fairly roundabout journey, serving all stations.. As to Ongar, there were always the workings to Loughton and/or Woodford. On the point about waiting at Oxford Circus for an Ongar train, all the describers before DMIs were marked in the central panel "For North Weald, Blake Hall and Ongar, change at Epping" and (a relic of 1948-52) "When no through train is shown, change at Loughton for trains to Epping".
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