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Post by snoggle on Aug 30, 2016 15:11:17 GMT
It's the shameless plug department here again! I popped into the rebuilt London Bridge station on Bank Holiday Monday and took snaps and even ventured to catch a train to Lewisham from one of the newly opened platforms. All went well until I encountered a security guard on platform 7 where the usual "can't take photos, security, you're a terrorist, we'll confiscate your camera" discussion ensued. Anyway here are the photos for your enjoyment. London Bridge station photos
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Post by longhedge on Aug 30, 2016 16:09:28 GMT
I found that getting permission to take photos, including the platforms was `simples`. I followed the instructions for Railway Enthusiasts on the Network Rail website. I visited the Network Rail Reception Desk, and they asked for my name, took a photograph, and I was given a lapel badge, which I had to return when leaving the station. Process only took 3 minutes. ( I must admit I was surprised how easy and friendly the staff were). I took many pictures, all over the station, in full view of several security guards – no problem.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 30, 2016 17:25:40 GMT
I found that getting permission to take photos, including the platforms was `simples`. I followed the instructions for Railway Enthusiasts on the Network Rail website. I visited the Network Rail Reception Desk, and they asked for my name, took a photograph, and I was given a lapel badge, which I had to return when leaving the station. Process only took 3 minutes. ( I must admit I was surprised how easy and friendly the staff were). I took many pictures, all over the station, in full view of several security guards – no problem. Well no one advised me that was required. If someone had pointed that out within a couple of minutes of me entering the station I'd have either complied or left. Instead there was no such advice within the station and then I endured a lot of claptrap being given to me as "justification" for an unacceptable position. These are public assets funded by all of us. It was surely not unexpected that people would turn up to take a look and take some photos? The message could have been put across on social media but it wasn't. A couple of posters within the station telling people where to go would also have helped if NR *really* wanted *everyone* to comply with their guidelines. As they couldn't be bothered to do this then I assume they place no weight on their own guidelines. I was also making a journey so why should I have to traipse back and forth to hand over permits? If I had had even a moderately coherent explanation rather than accusations that I *might* be a terrorist undertaking reconnaissance (I'm not and wasn't), that security staff could confiscate my camera (they can't) and that I was ignorant of applicable terrorism legislation (I'm not) then I might have been slightly happier. The security person was perfectly polite and decent but woefully unaware of the backdrop to what they can and cannot do within the terms of the law.
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Post by longhedge on Aug 30, 2016 18:16:31 GMT
I fully concur. Ian of `Ian Visits` blog had a similar experience, and was told he must get a permit, and even if he did, this would not allow filming of trains/platforms etc. Someone replied with a link to the Network Rail site, whose existence was unknown to me, advising I had to notify them that I was on the station. Frankly, I was amazed it went so smoothly. As I said, I was given a `access all public areas` pass only, as expected,which enabled me to photograph what I wanted, provided no CCTV equipment was filmed and obviously no flash. I often take photos for London Railway Record, and it is rarely I have any trouble. But as usual, it is the odd jobsworth that causes all the trouble. At Richmond station, an SWT one, I was told I had to complete a detailed form, giving at least 7 (maybe 10) days notice; the form was for a film crew as it mentioned lighting rigs etc. and did not apply to me. After a lot of chin wagging, I was allowed to photograph the 1869 canopy support straight away, but had to wear a high-viz vest, which they supplied.
As railway stations are really in the public domain, with lots of pictures on line (they are not Military establishments) I don`t know why `sometimes` railway enthusiasts are given so much aggro.
By the way, love your pictures of the concourse; I was quite impressed with what I see, especially that I used the station for many years until retirement in 2013.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 30, 2016 18:30:12 GMT
We appreciate that the subject of photography is a contentious one, and it has been discussed at length on another recent thread relating to the Bakerloo at Stonebridge Park. It would be unhelpful if this thread went over the same issues, so a polite request to stay on topic and discuss the London Bridge rebuild. Thanks.
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Post by spsmiler on Aug 30, 2016 18:37:29 GMT
Having seen about this on the TV news yesterday I made a point of visiting the station earlier today to see what was new and whilst there had a very different interaction with a member of staff.
I was scanning the destinations and stations served on the 'next train' describer and someone came up to me to ask if I was OK. I was looking for a train which was routed via City Thameslink - these used to pass through London Bridge but stopped doing so when the building works began. However, since some service patterns were changing I was wondering if through Thameslink services were being restarted.
The station official confirmed what I suspected but was hoping not to hear - City TL is still not being served. I ended up going to St Pauls and walking.
Simon
Post edited by superteacher removing references to photography. Please see my previous post.
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Post by mcmaddog on Aug 30, 2016 19:24:57 GMT
As for the new subterranean area, well its OK but nothing special. I question if the severe inconvenience the building works has caused passengers can be justified. I agree, I was expecting something rather fantastic but I found it actually quite dark and austere. The staff also don't have any knowledge of Thameslink and Southern services.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Aug 30, 2016 19:42:58 GMT
I fully concur. Ian of `Ian Visits` blog had a similar experience, and was told he must get a permit, and even if he did, this would not allow filming of trains/platforms etc. Someone replied with a link to the Network Rail site, whose existence was unknown to me, advising I had to notify them that I was on the station. Frankly, I was amazed it went so smoothly. As I said, I was given a `access all public areas` pass only, as expected,which enabled me to photograph what I wanted, provided no CCTV equipment was filmed and obviously no flash. I often take photos for London Railway Record, and it is rarely I have any trouble. But as usual, it is the odd jobsworth that causes all the trouble. At Richmond station, an SWT one, I was told I had to complete a detailed form, giving at least 7 (maybe 10) days notice; the form was for a film crew as it mentioned lighting rigs etc. and did not apply to me. After a lot of chin wagging, I was allowed to photograph the 1869 canopy support straight away, but had to wear a high-viz vest, which they supplied. As railway stations are really in the public domain, with lots of pictures on line (they are not Military establishments) I don`t know why `sometimes` railway enthusiasts are given so much aggro. By the way, love your pictures of the concourse; I was quite impressed with what I see, especially that I used the station for many years until retirement in 2013. i've seen some atrocious behaviour on the Internet of railway enthusiasts with cameras behaving like old women at a church fete bargain stall, barging in front of people on a station platform to get a picture and then complaining if a member of the travelling public dares get in the way! I suspect this is what (perhaps understandably) gives rise to the officiousness I dislike so much.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 30, 2016 20:13:49 GMT
As for the new subterranean area, well its OK but nothing special. I question if the severe inconvenience the building works has caused passengers can be justified. I agree, I was expecting something rather fantastic but I found it actually quite dark and austere. The staff also don't have any knowledge of Thameslink and Southern services. I found the interior OK. It is somewhat gloomy when you enter from St Thomas St because of the low roof and absence of some facilities that will no doubt provide more illumation when they open or are installed. I though it was OK once you get into the main concourse area with its higher roof space. I'm still not convinced by the gateline layout. Looks bizarre to me. I know there will be many more when the remainder of the concourse opens but it feels terribly clumsy in the area near the ticket office with gates almost at 90 degrees to each other. I suspect that we have the bizarre situation that staff upstairs know about Southern / T Link while those downstairs only know about South Eastern as that's "new". I assume that there are staff from 5 different organisations charged with "looking after people" - Southern / GTR, South Eastern, NR contracted security staff, NR permanent staff and BTP. Strikes me as a somewhat odd situation but not unique to London Bridge - with the possible exception of the high number of contracted staff. I sincerely hope that's a temporary situation for the next few days until people are fully back to work, kids are back at school and people have "learnt the ropes" about how the revised station works. I hope the signage about how to get between LU and NR is also improved - I only found by way by virtue of having once trekked along Joiner St to find the entrance to the Shard and from there I could fathom out that St Thomas St was in front of me. Not really ideal though and I can't be counted as a regular at the London Bridge stations so could have got lost or confused all too easily. I tend to go past by bus far more often than rail.
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Post by mcmaddog on Aug 30, 2016 20:30:39 GMT
Yes I followed the signs from the Underground which ended at a barriered off passageway with no further hints as to where next to go
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Post by Jerome H on Aug 30, 2016 22:37:22 GMT
I'm still not convinced by the gateline layout. Looks bizarre to me. I know there will be many more when the remainder of the concourse opens but it feels terribly clumsy in the area near the ticket office with gates almost at 90 degrees to each other. What I'm a little confused by is that the set of escalators between 9 and 10 that connect the lower concourse and the upper concourse are part of the unpaid part of the station. If this was part of the paid area the upper level and lower level gatelines would look a lot tidier. But since passengers from upstairs need to be able to get to the ticket office, were stuck with an awkward layout. I've never actually had to use London Bridge NR, so I'm curious as to where the ticket office used to be and how passengers accessed it, considered the station seems to be have considered two stations up until about 48 hours ago.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 30, 2016 23:37:32 GMT
I'm still not convinced by the gateline layout. Looks bizarre to me. I know there will be many more when the remainder of the concourse opens but it feels terribly clumsy in the area near the ticket office with gates almost at 90 degrees to each other. What I'm a little confused by is that the set of escalators between 9 and 10 that connect the lower concourse and the upper concourse are part of the unpaid part of the station. If this was part of the paid area the upper level and lower level gatelines would look a lot tidier. But since passengers from upstairs need to be able to get to the ticket office, were stuck with an awkward layout. I've never actually had to use London Bridge NR, so I'm curious as to where the ticket office used to be and how passengers accessed it, considered the station seems to be have considered two stations up until about 48 hours ago. The old ticket office used to be just inside the main ticket hall which adjoined the terminating platforms. There was a large bus station out front with stands arranged on a NW - SE axis. Between the ticket office and the external (glass) frontage of the ticket hall was a narrowish subway which linked to the bottom of the long ramps that went up to platforms serving Kent / Charing Cross / Cannon St / Thameslink services (the old P1-6 I think). To be fair the old London Bridge really was horribly constrained even off peak. It must have been hell in the peaks. During the rebuild the ticket office has been in a temporary structure out the front of the station. That's now shut and will no doubt disappear at some point.
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Post by Hutch on Aug 31, 2016 7:29:08 GMT
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 2, 2016 9:24:35 GMT
I wonder, if passengers were offered a trade, which would they choose: 1) unchanged station (even if it is sub-optimal to present-day and future needs) so that they do not experience any of the massive disruption to services which they have endured over recent years because of the rebuild? 2) rebuilt station, and just put up with the disruption which is directly attributable to the works (obviously things such as signal failure at Lewisham should be seen as a different issue)?
Simon
ps: re: the message which was edited by the mods, I actually started writing it before the mods message was posted, but as I was doing two things at the same time it took me about 20 minutes to write. I only saw the mod's message after I posted my message which the timestamps show was posted just 7 minutes before mine. So, I neither knowingly nor purposely disobeyed a mod's ruling.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 2, 2016 11:26:41 GMT
. I was looking for a train which was routed via City Thameslink - these used to pass through London Bridge but stopped doing so when the building works began. However, since some service patterns were changing I was wondering if through Thameslink services were being restarted. The station official confirmed what I suspected but was hoping not to hear - City TL is still not being served. Surprised you thought there might be - it has been well publicised that there will be no through Thameslink services via London Bridge until 2018 www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/key-dates-and-service-changes
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Post by spsmiler on Sept 3, 2016 22:47:27 GMT
. I was looking for a train which was routed via City Thameslink - these used to pass through London Bridge but stopped doing so when the building works began. However, since some service patterns were changing I was wondering if through Thameslink services were being restarted. The station official confirmed what I suspected but was hoping not to hear - City TL is still not being served. Surprised you thought there might be - it has been well publicised that there will be no through Thameslink services via London Bridge until 2018 www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/key-dates-and-service-changes I admit to indulging in "wishful thinking". I'd heard about service changes and speculatively asked the station official in case the service changes included Thameslink services via City TL too. Simon
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Post by phil on Sept 3, 2016 23:09:31 GMT
The station official confirmed what I suspected but was hoping not to hear - City TL is still not being served. I ended up going to St Pauls and walking. Of course its not being served again - the fact one third of London Bridge is STILL a building site (even if two thirds of it have re-opened) and is missing several important features (i.e. 6 platforms!) should have given a clue.... Thameslink services will only return when ALL the rebuilding is finished and ALL the new infrastructure is complete. The next big change will be when the viaduct and buildings behind the hordings have been replaced and Cannon Street trains can call a LB again sometime next year.
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 4, 2016 4:04:00 GMT
The station official confirmed what I suspected but was hoping not to hear - City TL is still not being served. I ended up going to St Pauls and walking. Of course its not being served again - the fact one third of London Bridge is STILL a building site (even if two thirds of it have re-opened) and is missing several important features (i.e. 6 platforms!) should have given a clue.... Thameslink services will only return when ALL the rebuilding is finished and ALL the new infrastructure is complete. The next big change will be when the viaduct and buildings behind the hordings have been replaced and Cannon Street trains can call a LB again sometime next year. Platform 6 is very much there but no trains are stopping. (No third rail as yet)
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Post by phil on Sept 4, 2016 8:05:33 GMT
Of course its not being served again - the fact one third of London Bridge is STILL a building site (even if two thirds of it have re-opened) and is missing several important features (i.e. 6 platforms!) should have given a clue.... Thameslink services will only return when ALL the rebuilding is finished and ALL the new infrastructure is complete. The next big change will be when the viaduct and buildings behind the hordings have been replaced and Cannon Street trains can call a LB again sometime next year. Platform 6 is very much there but no trains are stopping. (No third rail as yet) It may physically be there but it is missing from all the signage - as are platforms 1-5. Platform 6 and the incomplete platform 5 will be used for the non stop Cannon Street trains so that the original viaduct and platforms can be demolished to make way for the final phase of the concourse, so con rail will appear very soon. To do this some bits of platform 5 have to be left unfinished thanks to the various temporary track layouts required. When the reconstruction is completed Cannon Street trains will return to using platforms 1, 2 & 3, leaving platform 6 available for Charing Cross services and 4&5 ready for the finishing tweaks to turn them into the Thameslink platforms.
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