TfL consultation - Crossrail Central operating section

Snoggle - it would meet 4tph on the Heathrow branch if you had 2 from Shenfield, 2 from the south-east!

LUL still runs fast services on some lines, the Piccadilly between Hammersmith and Acton Town, and the Metropolitan Line between Baker Street and Harrow on the Hill.

For how the Crossrail maps will look I'm West London, I would look at how chingford services are depicted between Liverpool Street and Hackney.

Fast services will run for the foreseeable future between Baker Street and Wembley Park, although they have been all but eliminated between Wembley Park and Harrow.
As for Turnham Green, I think that is an aspiration to fit platform doors, for which an all day (or not at all) service at TG is a necessary consequence, rather than an aspiration itself.

TfL appear to be in no hurry to eliminate the non-stop working between Denmark Hill and Clapham High Street, skipping Brixton!

I'm not sure - I was responding to "Londoner's" assertion that " a long term aspiration [is] to put platform edge doors on the Piccadilly line, which would mean trains would always need to stop at Turnham Green." However, I don't see why installing platform doors at TG (as part of a Piccadilly Line project) would require all trains to stop there - on the contrary, it would make run-throughs safer.

Indeed, platform doors might be the solution to the Ealing Common problem. By having only one of the two lines calling there, and keeping the doors closed when the other service is passing, we can dispense with the compromise height for the platforms, and the different door spacings of NtTL and S stock won't matter. Passengers for the non-stopping line would change at Acton Town. (There are also buses from Ealing Common to both Ealing Broadway and Hanger Lane)

Not at all - assuming it is the District which non-stops EC, Ealing Common to Chiswick Park would be to take the Piccadilly and change at Acton Town.

Having Platform Screen doors at Turnham Green will allow Piccadilly line trains to pass through the station at full unrestricted line speed, at the moment, if you listen closely, the traction motors actually drop out when the train is passing through the station (The dead give awvay is the double-Clonk sound when approaching the station, and another double-clonk when just past the station, easily heard when you are in the leading motor car heading out towards Heathrow.). Try listening out for them when you next use a Piccadilly fast service through Turnham Green.

I don't really see why the pics stopping pattern is analogous to Crossrail. It might miss out one station most of the time, but that's the only exception on any LUL line bar the Met (which is itself counter-intuitively being wound down).

I hope in time a solution to homogenise the services can be found, as, far from being the newest tube line as some might wish to portray, it is far similar in ethos the latest Overground additions, or indeed just a high frequency NR line.

Yeah, but, that's the point isn't it? Emergencies aside, the Piccadilly line never serves those stations, they aren't Piccadilly line stations, they aren't served by some Piccadilly line trains and not others. To all intents and purposes, the Piccadilly line does not serve, say, Ravenscourt Park.

The same with the Jubilee line stations between Finchley Road and Wembley Park.

But this is not analogous to the Metropolitan line stations between Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill (including Wembley Park, at least in the southbound direction), and those between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Moor Park.

But, again, isn't that the point, though? The Metropolitan line does have a different name to the Jubilee line, it does have different trains, it is run as a different line without interworking. You'll never have to check the front of your train to see if your Metropolitan line train is calling at West Hampstead. You'll never have to view in car diagrams to see whether it's the Amersham trains that serve West Hampstead or the Uxbridge ones, because none of them ever do! You'll never be in a position where you let this Metropolitan line train go at Liverpool Street and get on the next one, because you want a service that serves Dollis Hill.

Whereas, in the peaks, you certainly do have to have regard to the front of your train if you're trying to get home to Northwick Park or Pinner. It certainly is wise to acquaint yourself with the fact that generally peak-hour Amersham trains don't serve Northwick Park and generally peak hour Uxbridge trains do.

But this simply isn't a factor for the Piccadilly line. There isn't an all stations Piccadilly line service and a fast Piccadilly line service, to all intents and purposes the Piccadilly line between Acton Town and Hammersmith is more like the Central line between Mile End and Liverpool Street (compared to the Hammersmith & City line, which is like the District line between Acton Town and Hammersmith in this analogy). Obviously I know that's a ridiculous analogy in historical and operational terms, yes, but not really as far as a lay journeyman need be concerned. If you want Ravenscourt Park you get on a District line train, if you don't you get on a Piccadilly line train. Whereas, if you want Northwick Park, you get on a Metropolitan line train, and if you don't, you get on a ... Metropolitan line train ...

More to the point, though, is a Piccadilly line passenger doesn't have to worry about whether their train is all stations or fast ... because they all don't serve Chiswick Park, Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt Park all the time (apart from emergencies, obviously, which are more common than we might think, but not enough to really make these stations like Preston Road and Northwick Park).

If you get a Piccadilly line train, you know what you're getting, they're all the same. If you get a Metropolitan line train, between Finchley Road and Wembley Park, you know what you're getting, they're all the same. If you get a Metropolitan line train, between Wembley Park and Harrow-on-the-Hill, they're not all the same, you don't know what you're getting, you do have to check the front of the train and read the map on the inside.

There aren't express and stopping Piccadilly line trains, there are express and stopping Metropolitan line trains.

Now with Crossrail, it looks like you're gonna have some Crossrail trains stopping and West Ealing and some not stopping at West Ealing and you're gonna have some Crossrail trains stopping at Hanwell and some not stopping at Hanwell.

But there are no Piccadilly line trains that stop at Ravenscourt Park and there are no Metropolitan line trains that stop at Kilburn.

And even with Turnham Green on the Picc, it's a time of day thing. Once the first Piccadilly line train serves Turnham Green in the evening, they all do until close of service. And in the morning, they all serve Turnham Green until the last Piccadilly line train to serve Turnham Green, after which time, none of them do until evening (incidents aside).

It's not like only Heathrow trains serve Turnham Green in the evening, with the Rayners Lane trains running through it. But with Crossrail, it will be like that.

So that's the difference from the customer perspective, isn't it?

I'd like to see how it is arranged for Piccadilly Line trains to serve Chiswick Park (both directions) and Stamford Brook (eastbound). I say this because there are no platforms which make this possible and the proximity of District Line tracks make this doubly impossible.

The same type of comment applies to Met trains at most stations between Finchley Road and Wembley Park. (Except Willesden Green).

re: Ealing Common, why cant platforms be extended past the other side of the road bridge which forms the station entrance with the new platforms being dedicated to one line's trains and the existing platforms to the other line's trains? Then there could also be level access for all! This would be a lot better than running one line's trains though non-stop and inconveniencing its passengers. Changing at Acton Town is not always convenient, especially if passengers need to go upstairs to reach the other pair of platforms.

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re: Crossrail trains to Heathrow, I thought that the funding agreement from the people in Docklands included that 50% the trains which serve Canary Wharf travel to Heathrow. This would likely explain why few, if any, off-peak trains from the Shenfield route will go to the airport. As someone who lives in Ilford I am resigned to this situation, even though I'd wish otherwise. I also question whether many people who live on the Shenfield route understand this issue, and suspect that even if estate agents do know they will not be telling their clients as it could be bad for property values.

Whilst on the topic of Crossrail and property values, even though I live much nearer to Gants Hill than Ilford stations I know this the value of properties in this street have been inflated by the lure of Crossrail - and now that night tube has started (this too being something that is slated to result in rising values for properties close to the stations it serves) its likely that values of properties local to me will rise even further.

Simon

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The references to TSR2 earlier in this thread remind those of us of a certain age of another public project which hardly met with success. The Wikipedia entry on it refers to ever rising costs and inter-service squabbling... familiar?
As to naming, Theresa line would be a bit of  a mouthful. The May (or May not...) line would be better
Still think it's daft not to run 50% of the Heathrow service from Shenfield

The Met Can't run on the Jubilee any more because of different signalling systems now.

It begs the question, how far into the future will we see Acton yard packed up and turned into housing? It is inevitable.  

None of those buses stop at either station