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Post by jetblast787 on Aug 12, 2016 6:50:06 GMT
I've noticed every morning that I take the district from Ealing the train always stops before Hangar Lane junction to let pics go past in either direction. Considering how relatively infrequent the service is in both the Ealing branch of the district and Uxbridge branch of the pic, surely it could be timetabled better to enable through running by the districts (hence no need to stop for the pics)? Discuss  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 7:33:49 GMT
They try and keep the trains in the correct order as this will screw up the running order up and down both lines and would lead to delays also at other junctions I.e Acton Town, Rayners Lane. And also the control room at Earls Court is all Picc staff |
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Post by rheostar on Aug 12, 2016 10:30:48 GMT
They try and keep the trains in the correct order as this will screw up the running order up and down both lines and would lead to delays also at other junctions I.e Acton Town, Rayners Lane. And also the control room at Earls Court is all Picc staff Are you saying that the Picc staff are biased towards their own line? Never!  (I was looking for the whistling innocently emoji) |
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Post by PiccNT on Aug 12, 2016 12:01:56 GMT
I hardly ever get held up there :-)
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Post by banana99 on Aug 12, 2016 23:18:42 GMT
They try and keep the trains in the correct order as this will screw up the running order up and down both lines and would lead to delays also at other junctions I.e Acton Town, Rayners Lane. And also the control room at Earls Court is all Picc staff Are you saying that the Picc staff are biased towards their own line? Never! (I was looking for the whistling innocently emoji) It's kind of very juvenile isn't it. I used to be 11 once upon a time. |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 12, 2016 23:30:05 GMT
Are you saying that the Picc staff are biased towards their own line? Never! (I was looking for the whistling innocently emoji) It's kind of very juvenile isn't it. I used to be 11 once upon a time. I don't think they are being that serious! |
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 13, 2016 5:31:52 GMT
Waiting at the junction frees a platform at Ealing Broadway for another train.
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Post by rheostar on Aug 13, 2016 6:50:39 GMT
It's kind of very juvenile isn't it. I used to be 11 once upon a time. I don't think they are being that serious! We're not being serious at all!! As District SOM's already said, it's better that trains are kept in the correct running order as it prevents delays in other areas. The signal operators normally have Hanger Lane in 'program only' to keep trains in the correct order. This is especially true since CTFS was introduced. |
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Aug 13, 2016 7:41:56 GMT
CTFS ?
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Post by seaeagle on Aug 13, 2016 8:08:48 GMT
Centralised Train Following System |
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Aug 13, 2016 8:37:34 GMT
Centralised Train Following System Thanks, do you know how it works ? |
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Post by rheostar on Aug 13, 2016 8:45:59 GMT
Centralised Train Following System Thanks, do you know how it works ? Yes. :-) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2016 9:44:43 GMT
The idea is very simple one computer follows the train no and TD from one end of the line to another and in the case of the District from West Ken going west. This overrides the legacy equipment but is fed back into the system to run the programme machines which on the Picc are now PLC driven. But the best feature is its playback reviewer
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Aug 13, 2016 18:26:04 GMT
Are you saying that the Picc staff are biased towards their own line? Never! (I was looking for the whistling innocently emoji) It's kind of very juvenile isn't it. I used to be 11 once upon a time. Welcome to the modern fragmented railway. These sorts of political issues are not uncommon. |
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Post by jetblast787 on Aug 17, 2016 9:19:10 GMT
But surely they could be timetabled to a more reasonable order to avoid conflicting with the piccadilly? All it requires is one or two mins later or earlier departure from Ealing broadway which allows more passengers to load onto the train and avoids passengers from missing the train only to watch it wait down the track for an extra min or two to get through the junction
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2016 16:25:45 GMT
You could always write to TFL and make the suggestion
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Post by jetblast787 on Aug 18, 2016 9:12:52 GMT
You could always write to TFL and make the suggestion I might actually do that; As I work at TfL, do you know which team I could contact? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 15:52:42 GMT
Scheduling / Timetables they used to be based at 55 Broadway
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on Aug 18, 2016 22:10:57 GMT
But surely they could be timetabled to a more reasonable order to avoid conflicting with the piccadilly? All it requires is one or two mins later or earlier departure from Ealing broadway which allows more passengers to load onto the train and avoids passengers from missing the train only to watch it wait down the track for an extra min or two to get through the junction If the timetables were to be reworked, it would likely have a knock-on effect at Earls Court. Also, the Picadilly line, Rayners Lane branch, is difficult to adjust too because of the Met line. |
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Post by jetblast787 on Aug 19, 2016 8:01:56 GMT
Scheduling / Timetables they used to be based at 55 Broadway Thanks! |
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Post by jetblast787 on Aug 19, 2016 8:03:43 GMT
But surely they could be timetabled to a more reasonable order to avoid conflicting with the piccadilly? All it requires is one or two mins later or earlier departure from Ealing broadway which allows more passengers to load onto the train and avoids passengers from missing the train only to watch it wait down the track for an extra min or two to get through the junction If the timetables were to be reworked, it would likely have a knock-on effect at Earls Court. Also, the Picadilly line, Rayners Lane branch, is difficult to adjust too because of the Met line. What I propose isn't a drastic change, but instead of waiting before the junction for a min or two, trains stay on the platform at Ealing for 30-60 seconds longer. This then means the picc would have crossed the junction allowing the district easy passage through the junction. It doesn't affect the ordering in any way |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 17:03:16 GMT
You be surprised what just 30 secs difference makes
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Post by banana99 on Aug 19, 2016 20:03:30 GMT
If the timetables were to be reworked, it would likely have a knock-on effect at Earls Court. Also, the Picadilly line, Rayners Lane branch, is difficult to adjust too because of the Met line. What I propose isn't a drastic change, but instead of waiting before the junction for a min or two, trains stay on the platform at Ealing for 30-60 seconds longer. This then means the picc would have crossed the junction allowing the district easy passage through the junction. It doesn't affect the ordering in any way I think you got a rough ride here. Why is unusual. Very unusual. From reading between the lines it seems it is optimal to have the District Line train waiting with baited breath at the signal ready to GO GO GO after the Piccadilly Line train has passed. I guess this makes sense as it has to cross the line going to North Ealing too. So rather than have the District Line train faffing about with doors etc at EB, it is more operationality expedient to have it wait at the signal guarding the entrance to HL Junction. |
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 19, 2016 20:29:37 GMT
If the timetables were to be reworked, it would likely have a knock-on effect at Earls Court. Also, the Picadilly line, Rayners Lane branch, is difficult to adjust too because of the Met line. What I propose isn't a drastic change, but instead of waiting before the junction for a min or two, trains stay on the platform at Ealing for 30-60 seconds longer. This then means the picc would have crossed the junction allowing the district easy passage through the junction. It doesn't affect the ordering in any way Sorry but your train staying in the platform longer would mean the District line train in front of the Piccadilly line train wouldn't be able to enter the station and free up the track space. Think you need to understand the train schedules are more complicated than Jet's train needs to run between stations without stopping. Just think how many interactions there are to reach your destination. |
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Post by banana99 on Aug 19, 2016 20:39:57 GMT
I am confused by the above post. The OP is suggesting that the District Line train remain in the platform at EB for 30 secs/1min longer and therefore not have to wait at the signal protecting the entrance to HL junction. How would the District Line train staying in the platform at EB for a bit longer means that it sits it in front of the Piccadilly Line train? Some misunderstanding here from one of us. I wouldn't be surprised if it were me BTW |
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 19, 2016 21:33:02 GMT
I am confused by the above post. The OP is suggesting that the District Line train remain in the platform at EB for 30 secs/1min longer and therefore not have to wait at the signal protecting the entrance to HL junction. How would the District Line train staying in the platform at EB for a bit longer means that it sits it in front of the Piccadilly Line train? Some misunderstanding here from one of us. I wouldn't be surprised if it were me BTW I meant the next train into Ealing Broadway which enters the platform vacated by Jet's train. This clears the track in front of the following Piccadiily line train which then can run towards Rayners Lane. |
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Post by banana99 on Aug 21, 2016 23:14:24 GMT
No still confused. What is "Jet's train"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 23:35:29 GMT
No still confused. What is "Jet's train"? Well 'jet' as in, jetblast787, the person who made the suggestion. So I think the idea is that District line train 001 is waiting in the platform for an extra 30 seconds/1 minute, as per jetblast's suggestion. Because District line train 001 is still in the platform, District line train 002 may have to wait outside of Ealing Broadway for train 001 to leave. Because District line train 002 is now being held up, it may take longer to clear Hanger Lane junction, which would delay Piccadilly line train 003 which is following it. Because Piccadilly line train 003 has now been delayed, District line train 001 may have to wait for Piccadilly line train 003 to clear the junction, because it was held up by train 002, which was held up by train 001, which is holding up train 003, which is holding up train 001, all of this for the express purpose of not holding up train 001. Or to put it another way, 001 leaves Ealing Broadway, 002 enters Ealing Broadway allowing 003 to proceed over Hanger Lane junction, allowing 001 to proceed over Hanger Lane junction. If 001 doesn't leave Ealing Broadway, 002 doesn't enter Ealing Broadway and doesn't allow 003 to proceed over Hanger Lane junction until 001 has left Ealing Browadway. Then 002 can move, then 003 can move, then 001 can move. --- This though is all pretty academic. I agree with crusty that there's a lot to timetabling, it's a tricky business and there are lots of things you want to have. You have to take into account the fact that there's a lot of knock-on effects, a lot of things earlier and later on down the line that have an effect, and it's a very fine balancing act. Making a change at point A can have weird knock-on effects at point C.3.b. A change at Hanger Lane junction could affect Rayners Lane Junction, which could affect the Met at Harrow-on-the-Hill, which could affect Baker Street Junction, which could affect the Circle and H & C, which could affect the District at Edgware Road, which could affect the junction with the mainline at East Putney, which could ... Actually, to be honest, that's quite a bit too extreme, I'm making a point, it's probably not gonna be quite as profound as all that. But it can be a rather complicated network. And, as well as that, like I say, there are many things you want. Good connections, smooth running at as many junctions as possible, a regular departure frequency (e.g. every 10 minutes exactly). You can't always have everything you want all the time, but there is a lot that goes into these timetables. However, I don't think that a train waiting at the home signal at Ealing Broadway (WP17) for a platform to become available would foul Hanger Lane junction, or for that matter delay the Piccadilly line in passing over the junction. Nor, for that matter, do I believe Ealing Broadway generally has all of its platforms full (although there again you might not want to cross train 1 in front of train 2, lest train 1 prevent train 2 from departing when you would ideally want it to). |
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paulsw2
My Train Runs For Those Who Wait Not Wait For Those That Run
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Post by paulsw2 on Aug 22, 2016 0:24:53 GMT
No still confused. What is "Jet's train"? Well 'jet' as in, jetblast787, the person who made the suggestion. So I think the idea is that District line train 001 is waiting in the platform for an extra 30 seconds/1 minute, as per jetblast's suggestion. Because District line train 001 is still in the platform, District line train 002 may have to wait outside of Ealing Broadway for train 001 to leave. Because District line train 002 is now being held up, it may take longer to clear Hanger Lane junction, which would delay Piccadilly line train 003 which is following it. Because Piccadilly line train 003 has now been delayed, District line train 001 may have to wait for Piccadilly line train 003 to clear the junction, because it was held up by train 002, which was held up by train 001, which is holding up train 003, which is holding up train 001, all of this for the express purpose of not holding up train 001. Or to put it another way, 001 leaves Ealing Broadway, 002 enters Ealing Broadway allowing 003 to proceed over Hanger Lane junction, allowing 001 to proceed over Hanger Lane junction. If 001 doesn't leave Ealing Broadway, 002 doesn't enter Ealing Broadway and doesn't allow 003 to proceed over Hanger Lane junction until 001 has left Ealing Browadway. Then 002 can move, then 003 can move, then 001 can move. --- This though is all pretty academic. I agree with crusty that there's a lot to timetabling, it's a tricky business and there are lots of things you want to have. You have to take into account the fact that there's a lot of knock-on effects, a lot of things earlier and later on down the line that have an effect, and it's a very fine balancing act. Making a change at point A can have weird knock-on effects at point C.3.b. A change at Hanger Lane junction could affect Rayners Lane Junction, which could affect the Met at Harrow-on-the-Hill, which could affect Baker Street Junction, which could affect the Circle and H & C, which could affect the District at Edgware Road, which could affect the junction with the mainline at East Putney, which could ... Actually, to be honest, that's quite a bit too extreme, I'm making a point, it's probably not gonna be quite as profound as all that. But it can be a rather complicated network. And, as well as that, like I say, there are many things you want. Good connections, smooth running at as many junctions as possible, a regular departure frequency (e.g. every 10 minutes exactly). You can't always have everything you want all the time, but there is a lot that goes into these timetables. However, I don't think that a train waiting at the home signal at Ealing Broadway (WP17) for a platform to become available would foul Hanger Lane junction, or for that matter delay the Piccadilly line in passing over the junction. Nor, for that matter, do I believe Ealing Broadway generally has all of its platforms full (although there again you might not want to cross train 1 in front of train 2, lest train 1 prevent train 2 from departing when you would ideally want it to). at around 2000-2100 all three district platforms tend to be in use at Ealing Bdy and again from 0015 till 0100 (M-F) as this is when there is the highest amount of Ealing Common stablers Don't do earlies so no idea about morning platform occupancy is like |
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(I was looking for the whistling innocently emoji) 
