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Post by spsmiler on Jun 29, 2016 21:25:07 GMT
This film shows an instance when using a contactless card results in the passenger being charged a fare that is several pounds lower than the fare charged for an identical journey paid using a PAYG Oyster card
I wonder whether this sort of thing was intended by TfL?
Simon
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 30, 2016 7:40:56 GMT
Amazingly, ATTOP, 72 people have read this thread and not a single one has posted to say that this is just wrong.
It's also pretty stupid of tfl to promote credit/debit card usage above Oyster since with Oyster they have a massive float of the money that is held on cards until journeys are undertaken.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 30, 2016 8:47:17 GMT
I wonder whether this sort of thing was intended by TfL? This has come up before. The answer is yes. Oyster is old technology, contactless is current; this happens because of the back office processing, which should eventually come to Oyster as well. Contactless is cheaper and more efficient for TfL as the model puts much onus on the banks. In times where as much money needs to be saved as possible it is definitely right that there is a push to move people to it, ignoring any benefits there are to customers. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 30, 2016 11:06:14 GMT
I wonder whether this sort of thing was intended by TfL? Contactless is cheaper and more efficient for TfL as the model puts much onus on the banks. Really? Is this clearly demonstrated anywhere? With contactless, surely the banks will get a percentage of every single fare charged, as opposed to every top up, with Oyster. If money is tight, why would they want to increase costs by paying the banks for every fare charged? And why would they want to give up the free loan provided by monies held on Oyster cards? It may be that tfl have all these bases covered - if so, do they explain how? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 30, 2016 12:44:50 GMT
With contactless, surely the banks will get a percentage of every single fare charged, as opposed to every top up, with Oyster. Since every top up eventually gets turned into fares, there is no difference in the total percentage take. (5% of £42 is the same as 10 x 5% of £4.20) If money is tight, why would they want to increase costs by paying the banks for every fare charged? Would you rather spend £2 to collect £100 yourself, or get someone else to collect the £100 for you and charge £1 commission? And why would they want to give up the free loan provided by monies held on Oyster cards? A valid point but, to be worthwhile, the interest earned on the loan (and interest rates are at historic low levels), would have to be greater than the overheads of collecting it . |
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Post by class411 on Jun 30, 2016 16:17:58 GMT
With contactless, surely the banks will get a percentage of every single fare charged, as opposed to every top up, with Oyster. Since every top up eventually gets turned into fares, there is no difference in the total percentage take. (5% of £42 is the same as 10 x 5% of £4.20) Obviously, if the bank's take is a simple percentage (which, with tfl's 'buying power' it may well have managed to negotiate), that would be the case. I was working on the basis that there was a fixed cost (the reason why many retailers won't accept CC payment for small amounts). The devil is in the detail. tfl still have to pay for the gateline readers, the local processing, the comms, the multiplxors, the fare evaluation computers and the onward processing to pass the requests to the bank. All this is clearly true, and one supposes (against quite a bit of past evidence  ) that tfl know what they're doing. |
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Post by patrickb on Jul 1, 2016 1:23:15 GMT
With Oyster, customers know instantly how much they have been charged once completing their journey. Contactless doesn't, and I for one find it tedious.
Both methods are equally modern, advanced, and SHOULD price ALL journeys the same.
Oh sure, contactless is quick, easy, blah blah blah............. is it safe? no. People loose credits cards all the time, many will try and now successfully use your money to make transactions and TfL journeys. But that's fine because it all gets refunded right, oh! wait! but at the banks cost, oh never mind...
I'll keep my Oyster thanks, a method of ticketing which is relied upon by 11 to 18 years olds, the 60+'s, visitors and thousands of travelers every day who wish to use Oyster.
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Post by Jerome H on Jul 1, 2016 1:36:22 GMT
if you use Apple Pay, is that via Oyster or Bank Card.
On a non tube note I started using Apple Pay and I assume the management think smartphone payments will be the norm and no doubt the end of Big Oyster
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Post by countryman on Jul 1, 2016 9:36:59 GMT
if you use Apple Pay, is that via Oyster or Bank Card. On a non tube note I started using Apple Pay and I assume the management think smartphone payments will be the norm and no doubt the end of Big Oyster This is fine until you find your phone is dead. I posted about a couple who had rail tickets on their phone in Germany, and their battery was flat. This caused a big issue. How do Revenue Inspectors check any of these payment methods to ensure the fare has been paid? A flat battery with Apple Pay may be a problem. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 1, 2016 11:26:11 GMT
This is fine until you find your phone is dead. I posted about a couple who had rail tickets on their phone in Germany, and their battery was flat. This caused a big issue. How do Revenue Inspectors check any of these payment methods to ensure the fare has been paid? A flat battery with Apple Pay may be a problem. Many - but not all - trains have power sockets. When they are universal this may become less of an issue, although the number needed on a crush-loaded commuter train might require an unfeasible number of sockets! Maybe ticket inspectors should be equipped with phone chargers? |
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Post by class411 on Jul 1, 2016 11:58:02 GMT
This is fine until you find your phone is dead. I posted about a couple who had rail tickets on their phone in Germany, and their battery was flat. This caused a big issue. How do Revenue Inspectors check any of these payment methods to ensure the fare has been paid? A flat battery with Apple Pay may be a problem. Many - but not all - trains have power sockets. When they are universal this may become less of an issue, although the number needed on a crush-loaded commuter train might require an unfeasible number of sockets! Maybe ticket inspectors should be equipped with phone chargers? And a collection of adaptors for the myriad power connection systems. Although this does seem to be improving, now, since smartphones tend to want a USB connection, so it is just a matter of how many use a propitiatory connection at one end. |
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Post by countryman on Jul 1, 2016 16:08:08 GMT
This is fine until you find your phone is dead. I posted about a couple who had rail tickets on their phone in Germany, and their battery was flat. This caused a big issue. How do Revenue Inspectors check any of these payment methods to ensure the fare has been paid? A flat battery with Apple Pay may be a problem. Many - but not all - trains have power sockets. When they are universal this may become less of an issue, although the number needed on a crush-loaded commuter train might require an unfeasible number of sockets! Maybe ticket inspectors should be equipped with phone chargers? As long as they either have a suitable lead supplied (can't see them staying long) or you carry a lead with you. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 1, 2016 17:20:41 GMT
inductive charging of mobile phones is already a thing on some models, which would be a better option for a train environment than supplied leads.
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Post by class411 on Jul 1, 2016 17:46:02 GMT
inductive charging of mobile phones is already a thing on some models, which would be a better option for a train environment than supplied leads. It's lamentable that inductive charging did not become the norm several years ago. Imagine how much easier life would be if you could have a mat at home and one at work, and just lay your phone, tablet, kindle, or mp3 players on these. As well as ease of use it would save a lot of plastic and grunge being thrown away. The technology has been available for some considerable time but manufacturers just don't seem bothered. |
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) that tfl know what they're doing.
