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Post by nickf on Jun 28, 2016 6:31:25 GMT
I was watching The Bletchley Circle on television the other night - it is set in the post war years. The plot hinges on trains that ran from St. Pancras to Barking and at one point one of the characters referred to it as the GOBLIN, going on the explain that the name meant Gospel Oak and Barking Line. I am curious whether this is correct or not for the time, as if the trains ran from St. Pancras around to Barking, would they not have avoided Gospel Oak? Did the name GOBLIN not come about until the trains were diverted away from St. Pancras and ran to Gospel Oak instead? Should I get the green pen out and write a stinker to the production company? Or should I just take my medication and settle down?
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Post by snoggle on Jun 28, 2016 8:19:56 GMT
I was watching The Bletchley Circle on television the other night - it is set in the post war years. The plot hinges on trains that ran from St. Pancras to Barking and at one point one of the characters referred to it as the GOBLIN, going on the explain that the name meant Gospel Oak and Barking Line. I am curious whether this is correct or not for the time, as if the trains ran from St. Pancras around to Barking, would they not have avoided Gospel Oak? Did the name GOBLIN not come about until the trains were diverted away from St. Pancras and ran to Gospel Oak instead? Should I get the green pen out and write a stinker to the production company? Or should I just take my medication and settle down? Medication and relaxation is the best option.  |
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Post by peterc on Jun 28, 2016 12:11:05 GMT
Quite right, Gospel Oak wasn't served prior to the closure of the service from Kentish Town. Anachronisms are common in historic films although the railway ones seldom make it to the websites that list such things. Watch "The Password is Courage" and scream at the TOPS codes on the "German" wagons in one scene, I can't remember if they managed to slip a BR double arrow into that one as well.
The "GOBLIN" reference would be well known to non railfan Londoners and a "bloopers" website would be a better destination for any comments. Google will find a selection for you.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 28, 2016 12:36:18 GMT
Yes, i noticed that when it was first broadcast: along with the anachronistic Routemaster bus- about five years too early- and the very rural, and Southern Railway, station.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 28, 2016 13:58:34 GMT
Yes, i noticed that when it was first broadcast: along with the anachronistic Routemaster bus- about five years too early- and the very rural, and Southern Railway, station. Better than the Routemaster that turned up in Foyles War set in the mid 1940s!    |
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Post by countryman on Jun 28, 2016 14:27:55 GMT
Yes, i noticed that when it was first broadcast: along with the anachronistic Routemaster bus- about five years too early- and the very rural, and Southern Railway, station. Better than the Routemaster that turned up in Foyles War set in the mid 1940s! As far as I know, that episode of Foyle's War was filmed in Ireland (not sure if the Republic or NI) and the Routemaster may have been the only vehicle anywhere near appropriate. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 16:13:00 GMT
Regardless to the answers to the rest of the question, the answers to Should I get the green pen out and write a stinker to the production company? Or should I just take my medication and settle down? Are no and yes, respectively |
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Post by John Tuthill on Jun 28, 2016 16:40:25 GMT
As far as I know, that episode of Foyle's War was filmed in Ireland (not sure if the Republic or NI) and the Routemaster may have been the only vehicle anywhere near appropriate. Is was filmed around Dublin, the architecture suited the time scale. If they were so inclined I'm sure they could have shipped over an RT but maybe costs was the factor. I remember in 'Hanover Street' they used a mixture of pre and post war RTs. The film 'Let him have it Chris' used a mixture of RTs and RTLs although RTLs weren't used on the 109s. I supposed to the general masses a bus is a bus and a steam engine is a steam engine. I drive my wife mad |
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Post by John Tuthill on Jun 28, 2016 16:45:45 GMT
Yes, i noticed that when it was first broadcast: along with the anachronistic Routemaster bus- about five years too early- and the very rural, and Southern Railway, station. Better than the Routemaster that turned up in Foyles War set in the mid 1940s! And before Foyles War, there was a non descript TV film above love during the blitz. The two lovers are dodging an air raid, and out of the smoke a Routemaster arrives for them to make their escape!! One should always take war films with a pinch of salt, there can't be that many 'Tiger Tanks' in existence, just paint an iron cross on the side.. And don't forget Dear old Steve McQueens escape on a Triumph TR6 |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 28, 2016 17:57:45 GMT
And don't forget Dear old Steve McQueens escape on a Triumph TR6 They did at least make an attempt to disguise it as a 1940s BMW. (Rather like painting "LNWR" on the side of a Mark 1 and hoping that will do) And for anyone who was confused as I was by the reference to a TR6, Triumph model names were duplicated between 2- and 4-wheelers. |
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Post by countryman on Jun 28, 2016 18:12:51 GMT
As far as I know, that episode of Foyle's War was filmed in Ireland (not sure if the Republic or NI) and the Routemaster may have been the only vehicle anywhere near appropriate. Is was filmed around Dublin, the architecture suited the time scale. If they were so inclined I'm sure they could have shipped over an RT but maybe costs was the factor. I remember in 'Hanover Street' they used a mixture of pre and post war RTs. The film 'Let him have it Chris' used a mixture of RTs and RTLs although RTLs weren't used on the 109s. I supposed to the general masses a bus is a bus and a steam engine is a steam engine. I drive my wife mad Not quite true. On Saturdays in early 1964 on the 109, 39RTs and 3 RTLs were scheduled from Brixton as well as 9 from Thornton Heath. This is, of course 10 years after the date of the setting the film. I also drive my wife mad. I don't look for errors; they just jump out at me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 18:24:15 GMT
It is television drama and it's not meant to be real! Just like a stage play or a painting, what you see is representational.
I saw the programme and I do not recall that the term GOBLIN was actually used but definitely "Gospel Oak to Barking" was spoken of.
w.r.t. buses, if you use your imagination a bus with a square radiator air intake could have been a Daimler CVR6 or a Bristol Lodekka - London Buses had a small number of each (to make up for shortages caused by the war).
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 28, 2016 19:01:37 GMT
Bristol Lodekka - London Buses had a small number of each (to make up for shortages caused by the war London Transport certainly had a few Bristols in the fleet during the war, but the first Lodekka was built in 1949 |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 28, 2016 19:03:37 GMT
I do not recall that the term GOBLIN was actually used. I do recall it. Of course it could have been edited out of the repeat. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Jun 28, 2016 19:05:03 GMT
Is was filmed around Dublin, the architecture suited the time scale. If they were so inclined I'm sure they could have shipped over an RT but maybe costs was the factor. I remember in 'Hanover Street' they used a mixture of pre and post war RTs. The film 'Let him have it Chris' used a mixture of RTs and RTLs although RTLs weren't used on the 109s. I supposed to the general masses a bus is a bus and a steam engine is a steam engine. I drive my wife mad Not quite true. On Saturdays in early 1964 on the 109, 39RTs and 3 RTLs were scheduled from Brixton as well as 9 from Thornton Heath. This is, of course 10 years after the date of the setting the film. I also drive my wife mad. I don't look for errors; they just jump out at me. Quite true, but I was referring to the time period of the film (RTs from TH & BN) |
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Post by John Tuthill on Jun 28, 2016 19:16:44 GMT
And don't forget Dear old Steve McQueens escape on a Triumph TR6 They did at least make an attempt to disguise it as a 1940s BMW. (Rather like painting "LNWR" on the side of a Mark 1 and hoping that will do) And for anyone who was confused as I was by the reference to a TR6, Triumph model names were duplicated between 2- and 4-wheelers. Sorry If I've confused some people, the bikes full name is a Triumph Trophy TR6 |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 10:59:36 GMT
Bristol Lodekka - London Buses had a small number of each (to make up for shortages caused by the war London Transport certainly had a few Bristols in the fleet during the war, but the first Lodekka was built in 1949
I wrote caused by the war not during the war. AEC & Leyland took time to recover operations after war work so RTs were in short supply during the 1940s. There were also Guy Arabs in use. Lodekkas could have been in LT service during the period when the TV series was set. My basic point remains, however, that it's just a TV show.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 30, 2016 7:41:13 GMT
Lodekkas could have been in LT service during the period when the TV series was set. Could have been, but not in fact: www.countrybus.org/B/B.htmlAbout 40 Bristols were built for LT between 1942 and 1946 - all K-types, and all gone by 1953. There were also some loans of new buses in the immediate post war era, but all had gone to the originally-intended operators by the end of 1949. The only other Bristol models used by LT were the LH-type single deckers, of two different lengths, (95 BLs and 17 BSs) used to replace RFs in the late 1970s on routes where Leyland Nationals wouldn't fit. The Lodekka prototype was built in 1949, but it didn't go into production until 1954Green Lodekkas were of course a common sight on the long Eastern National route 251 to Wood Green, right up to the late 1970s, and used to film "On the Buses". |
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Post by peterc on Jun 30, 2016 8:55:19 GMT
Any film using vintage vehicles will have minor anachronisms simply because not every varient survives. That doesn't excuse things like using a vehicle introduced a decade or more later or having actors travelling on a line that didn't exist at the time.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jul 13, 2016 21:27:13 GMT
It's surprising in my line of business as a vehicle restorer specialising in Routemasters how many London Transport Lodekkas and Leyland PD2s there are in Europe, all painted LT red and going to Westminster and Piccadilly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2016 1:31:27 GMT
On further scrutiny of slightly fuzzy colour photos the red Lodekkas were in fact Thames Valley buses! A few Lodekkas were "inherited" by LT from National bus undertakings by rationalisation of LT and National routes in a few towns and garages but were very quickly handed back to National garages as LT has no interest in maintaining them. An uncle of mine got to drive a Lodekka in Thurrock as a training exercise and thought (says my cousin) that they were very good machines in comparison to his usual RT.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jul 17, 2016 5:40:33 GMT
On further scrutiny of slightly fuzzy colour photos the red Lodekkas were in fact Thames Valley buses! A few Lodekkas were "inherited" by LT from National bus undertakings by rationalisation of LT and National routes in a few towns and garages but were very quickly handed back to National garages as LT has no interest in maintaining them. An uncle of mine got to drive a Lodekka in Thurrock as a training exercise and thought (says my cousin) that they were very good machines in comparison to his usual RT. I used to catch a Lodekka on Eastern National route 251 between Clayhall and Newbury Park on a weekly basis years ago (probably c.1977/78 or thereabouts). I also got on an RT (LT route 129 - now 128) each day. IMHO, the Lodekka was substantially more comfortable. |
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Post by stapler on Jul 17, 2016 7:15:07 GMT
The Lodekkas used on the 251/351 were a considerably more modern design than the RT and hence a bit more refined. I frequently used them in the early 70s from Walthamstow to Chelmsford along the then unimproved A12 - a very tedious journey, with a 5-minute loo break in Brentwood High St. To my mind, they were more analogous with RMs. AIRI, the Lodekkas had only painted metal panels on the interior, whereas the RMs were "padded" with Rexine, so the noise was greater on the Bristols.
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Post by countryman on Jul 17, 2016 8:34:30 GMT
The Lodekkas used on the 251/351 were a considerably more modern design than the RT and hence a bit more refined. I frequently used them in the early 70s from Walthamstow to Chelmsford along the then unimproved A12 - a very tedious journey, with a 5-minute loo break in Brentwood High St. To my mind, they were more analogous with RMs. AIRI, the Lodekkas had only painted metal panels on the interior, whereas the RMs were "padded" with Rexine, so the noise was greater on the Bristols. Many of the panels on the staircases are indeed painted, but those by the seats are covered in what I assume is rexine. Some of the preserved ones, including this one: transport-illustrated.blogspot.co.uk/2014_09_01_archive.html?view=sidebar, have much of the rexine removed on the upper deck. And as for being more refined, on those with Self Changing Gears gearboxes the howling from the box is incredible. |
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Post by stapler on Jul 17, 2016 11:39:00 GMT
Ah, I'd forgotten the howling, but of course Countryman is right. It was specially bad entering the old Chelmsford bus station, AIRI. As for the Rexine, I think it was more like wallpaper, or perhaps the panels just vibrated more than on an RM?
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 28, 2016 14:46:14 GMT
My personal two favourite howlers are the BR coach numbers in Enigma and the visible overhead wire at Euston in The Imitation Game.
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