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Post by snoggle on May 13, 2016 14:46:03 GMT
Another tweet about "first 100 days of TfL actions" for the new mayor. Worth reading through the images in the tweet itself. Notable issues - new fares structure proposals for 2017 - night tube to start on *2* lines this Summer. Presumably Victoria and Central as they're not affected by the industrial dispute on Tube Lines. - Zone 1 buses to be all hybrid DDs and electric / hydrogen SDs by 2020. - review of ticket office closures
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 23:17:31 GMT
I'm interested to see the result of the customer focused review of the ticket office closures!
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Post by patrickb on May 14, 2016 0:59:33 GMT
I for one believed that Ticket Offices should of stayed where customers needed them most. Central Area Stations and Stations which also provided connections to other non LU services ie: Overground and National Rail. Sadly most of the damage is irreversible. I never had a chance to check on the removal of the Leslie Green Style Ticket Windows. I know that a few on the Northern were taken off, the modern-ish ones were taken off for sure.
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Post by rsdworker on May 14, 2016 4:50:47 GMT
also bus hopper - i wonder what this?
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Post by class411 on May 14, 2016 7:19:38 GMT
also bus hopper - I wonder what this? It would be good if it was some solution to the invidious situation where it is possible that you may need three buses for a one mile journey and have to pay three fares. Since there is no 'touch out' requirement it is not possible to implement a very accurate window for getting off one bus and on another but it should certainly be possible to say, for example, that if you touch in within half an hour of previously touching in, you don't have to pay a new fare. True they may get people managing a very quick return shopping trip on one fare, but it would be much fairer for people who have awkward journeys that involve short hops and a longer ride. ETAJust after writing this I read an article in the Grauniad where by Sadiq Khan which said this is exactly what had already been implemented (but with a hour window) two days after he was elected. Bozzer had apparently said it wasn't possible. Bit of a twerp was Boris!
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2016 7:35:56 GMT
also bus hopper - i wonder what this? This has been all over the news this week. See this Standard story
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Post by csalem on May 14, 2016 7:49:29 GMT
Good idea. We have something similar in Dublin called "Leap90". If you use your Leap card (our version of Oyster) to start a second journey within 90 mins of first you get 1 euro off. Applies on train bus and tram. And every journey restarts 90 minute clock.
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Post by snoggle on May 14, 2016 9:48:13 GMT
also bus hopper - i wonder what this? It will be a new facility for Oyster and contactless card users whereby you second a bus journey free if you touch in within 60 mins of starting your bus ride. In reality is a variant of an existing facility in the system that allows tram to tram, bus to tram and tram to bus interchange on Tramlink and in the New Addington area where a small number of bus services are designated as "feeder" buses. The Hopper ticket will be made more flexible in 2018 when Oyster is switched to a being what I term "dumb" rather than "clever". At present value is held on Oyster cards as is a number of transactions. These are mirrored in the central system when it receives data from readers, ticket machines and Oyster Ticket Stops. In future Oyster Cards will act as a "token" and won't hold value. Instead they will work like bank cards do - they trigger transactions which are all collated in a central system. AIUI the central system will in future hold the cash balance and products the customer has paid for and will then collate all the transactions that come in and work out the balance of PAYG and update any Travelcards renewals that have been made. TfL's "back room system" that they created for bank card processing is more flexible than the structure of Oyster and the card data so it can do clever calculations like 7 day capping. It will also be able to cope with more flexible pricing to more destinations hence why it is essential for the extension of Crossrail beyond West Drayton to the west. At present Oyster is "capped" as to how many pseudo additonal fare zones it can reflect hence the rather strange pricing and stretching of the zone concept to cover places like Dartford, Gatwick and to Hertford East. Once the new system is in place then it is possible that Oyster can be stretched up the Thameslink / Great Northern route as hinted at in the franchise award. Also expect to see things Monthly capping and "account based payment" being introduced. Coming back to the "hopper" ticket it will allow unlimited changes within 1 hour from 2018 when new Oyster and the CPC back room system will be able to combine "X" bus journeys into one charge rather than just 2 in the short term. There are loads of questions about how Hopper will work that remain unanswered. There will also, no doubt, be a load of moans when it does launch as inevitably people will fall the wrong side of the 60 min limit if the bus is "delayed" or people just miss a connecting bus. In some parts of London frequencies are wider than every 60 mins anyway so if you were unfortunate to just miss a bus and there was no alternative then you might have a 70 min wait. Similarly many night bus journeys are quite long and if people need to change to another bus in the suburbs they may easily exceed the 60 min parameter just on the first journey never mind any waiting time for their connection (likely to be only running every 30 mins anyway). I can completely understand why people are enthused about the potential saving in fares if they have to use more than one bus to get somewhere. However no one should think it's a panacea and not every journey will be eligible for a discount simply because journey times and connecting times vary across London, by time of day and day of the week.
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Post by Jerome H on May 14, 2016 11:46:43 GMT
Sadly most of the damage is irreversible. I never had a chance to check on the removal of the Leslie Green Style Ticket Windows. I know that a few on the Northern were taken off, the modern-ish ones were taken off for sure. It appears that the ticket offices which were needed most have been changed into ticket machines, and the ones that haven't were boarded over with graphics, so I also doubt refitting the spaces will b easy. Also I hope they talk to a lot of tourists rather than just commuters. After 12 years I visited my childhood station to see the boarded ticket windows. It was sad, since I remember my mum buying tickets to Oxford Circus from those very Windows. What gets me are the ticket offices that had Windows that cross the Gateline as assistance points. That said I've had no trouble pinpointing staff, but I'm sure tourists would have a different experince.
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Post by Chris M on May 14, 2016 13:49:14 GMT
At Colindale I saw someone who was not let out of the barriers due to a code I didn't recognise (I can't remember what it was this time). There were no staff visible overseeing the gateline and I saw none in the ticket hall (not all of which is visible from the gateline) so I had to advise him to go back down to the platforms and use a help point to try and get some assistance.
At Debden, after the ticket office hours were slashed but before the office was closed completely, in a similar situation one early evening a young man also not being let out decided to vault the barriers (which he did in a manner suggesting a background in gymnastics) rather than use a help point.
These are far from the only occasions though that I've traversed stations without seeing a single member of staff.
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Post by peterc on May 14, 2016 14:44:11 GMT
Whatever he does people will complain loudly that it should be been different or more extensive. Sometimes I think that some people believe that it is better to do nothing at all if you can't do everything at once.
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Post by snoggle on May 14, 2016 18:05:11 GMT
At Colindale I saw someone who was not let out of the barriers due to a code I didn't recognise (I can't remember what it was this time). There were no staff visible overseeing the gateline and I saw none in the ticket hall (not all of which is visible from the gateline) so I had to advise him to go back down to the platforms and use a help point to try and get some assistance. At Debden, after the ticket office hours were slashed but before the office was closed completely, in a similar situation one early evening a young man also not being let out decided to vault the barriers (which he did in a manner suggesting a background in gymnastics) rather than use a help point. These are far from the only occasions though that I've traversed stations without seeing a single member of staff. My use of the tube has declined sharply but I recently passed through Canning Town station mid afternoon on a weekday. There were no staff present at all at the gateline, in the ticket hall or at the ticket machines. There were people having problems at the gates but no one to assist. That is surely completely unacceptable?
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Post by jacks on May 14, 2016 18:09:11 GMT
Sounds dodgy, if there are no staff present on the gateline/in the ticket hall the gates are meant to be left open (or a wide luggage gate open as a minimum). The gates at Edgware have been open a fair few times in the past month when I've gone through!
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Post by phil on May 14, 2016 18:22:06 GMT
At Colindale I saw someone who was not let out of the barriers due to a code I didn't recognise (I can't remember what it was this time). There were no staff visible overseeing the gateline and I saw none in the ticket hall (not all of which is visible from the gateline) so I had to advise him to go back down to the platforms and use a help point to try and get some assistance. At Debden, after the ticket office hours were slashed but before the office was closed completely, in a similar situation one early evening a young man also not being let out decided to vault the barriers (which he did in a manner suggesting a background in gymnastics) rather than use a help point. These are far from the only occasions though that I've traversed stations without seeing a single member of staff. My use of the tube has declined sharply but I recently passed through Canning Town station mid afternoon on a weekday. There were no staff present at all at the gateline, in the ticket hall or at the ticket machines. There were people having problems at the gates but no one to assist. That is surely completely unacceptable? It is also illegal under H& S regs because it prevents passengers from being able to escape in cases of emergencies like a fire. The rules are quite clear, if gates are left unattended at any time they must be left in the open position. That includes nipping off for a fag break, a toilet break, emptying the bins, etc (Note the gates are not considered unattended if they are monitored by CCTV, have a help point near by and the staff member at the other end of the help point can open the gates remotely - however if theses remote monitoring / activation systems fail, then the gates must be considered unattended and opened ASAP).
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Post by 1018509 on May 14, 2016 19:51:17 GMT
With this hopper system - if you just miss your connection and have over an hour to wail couldn't you just jump on any bus for one stop or even get off after touching in to avoid paying more than one fare?
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Antje
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Post by Antje on May 14, 2016 19:55:56 GMT
These are my wishlist items for 100 days and beyond too:
- Key ticket offices should reopen. - Improve the balance between security and privacy in wake of a certain spying scandal by improving and assuring the confidentiality of customer and CCTV data. - Replace the annoying holograms with simpler digital signs. - Maybe scale down the Cable Car promotions so that Emirates will have less reason to keep the sponsorship. - A single but more unique jingle, and a single automated announcer for all station announcements like what the SNCF does: Ding dongs are getting boring after I visited France many times. - Multilingual announcements for certain topics (public safety, etc) to make tourism a lot easier. - A mascot for the tube, preferably a mole or a Japanese animé character. - Make the interior of the NTfL more exciting like the 1990s. - Bid to operate other metro systems like what RATP does. - Railfan windows that allows customers to see ahead like a normal window but not annoy operators. Although I know something like this exists, I don't remember the exact type of window that does that. - Update the Liveries to fit both the GLA and TFL brands. - Return the TfL logo to mixed case and remove the motto, as UPPERCASE text is basically shouting like that Drill Sargent in Apocalypse Now. - Line numbers and letters (Undergound Line 1=Bakerloo, Undergound Line 2=Central and so on; Overground A1=North London to CLJ, Overground A2 North London to RMD and so on). - Replace IE on all TFL computers with Firefox and Chrome because modern trend. - Rename a station Nelson Mandela since Paris names stations after famous people. - Have me look after the Tube Map like Paul Garbutt.
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Post by Chris M on May 14, 2016 20:21:12 GMT
These are my wishlist items for 100 days and beyond too: - Key ticket offices should reopen. - Improve the balance between security and privacy in wake of a certain spying scandal by improving and assuring the confidentiality of customer and CCTV data. - Replace the annoying holograms with simpler digital signs. - Return the TfL logo to mixed case and remove the motto, as UPPERCASE text is basically shouting like that Drill Sargent in Apocalypse Now. I agree with all these. - Maybe scale down the Cable Car promotions so that Emirates will have less reason to keep the sponsorship. I agree with scaling down the cable car promotions, but to release the advertising sites to paying customers to bring in money for TfL. - A single but more unique jingle, and a single automated announcer for all station announcements like what the SNCF does: Ding dongs are getting boring after I visited France many times. - A mascot for the tube, preferably a mole or a Japanese animé character. - Make the interior of the NTfL more exciting like the 1990s. - Update the Liveries to fit both the GLA and TFL brands. - Replace IE on all TFL computers with Firefox and Chrome because modern trend. - Have me look after the Tube Map like Paul Garbutt. Meh on all those for me. - Multilingual announcements for certain topics (public safety, etc) to make tourism a lot easier. Yes, as long as you don't go overboard. There are too many announcements currently. - Bid to operate other metro systems like what RATP does. If the law allows, then definitely. - Railfan windows that allows customers to see ahead like a normal window but not annoy operators. Although I know something like this exists, I don't remember the exact type of window that does that. I don't know what you're thinking about but how about installing a forward-facing CCTV camera and broadcasting it on train-internal wifi. Those who want to see this could pay a small fee (say £1 a day or £10 a month) to access the live stream. - Line numbers and letters (Undergound Line 1=Bakerloo, Undergound Line 2=Central and so on; Overground A1=North London to CLJ, Overground A2 North London to RMD and so on). Underground no, Overground yes, DLR maybe. - Rename a station Nelson Mandela since Paris names stations after famous people. I really dislike the idea of naming stations after famous people, station names should always reflect the local area they serve, and something like St. James's Park Nelson Mandella is too unweildy and open to door to such horrible ideas as Westminster David Cameron or Uxbridge Boris Johnson.
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Post by superteacher on May 14, 2016 20:56:18 GMT
This thread is in danger of heading all over the place! We have an existing thread for ticket office closures. Let's keep the discussion to the thread title. For other proposals, feel free to use the RIPAS boards. Thanks.
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Post by spsmiler on May 14, 2016 22:36:34 GMT
Key ticket offices reopen Forward facing CCTV views on trains - broadcast on the train on Wi-Fi Proper LED based route maps inside S7, LO, DLR trains & Tramlink - single maps for all possible lines served by that train / tram with LEDS showing the full route to be served, the next station, etc. Ending of irksome and sometimes incorrect "good service" announcements at stations Line numbers for the DLR (as per Tramlink) Line letter codes for Overground (HI, DJ, LS, CJ, etc based on destination, so will vary according to direction of travel but would mean all trains to Highbury & Islington have same letter no matter point of origin; etc) 2-6 and 2-9 single day fares caps Cardboard one day oyster tickets (all cardboard tickets aimed at visitors but can be bought by anyone; no penalties for forgetting to touch-out) Cardboard one day bus & tram oyster passes Cardboard one day Docklands oyster passes cardboard weekend oyster passes (valid from 18:30 Friday night or Sat night at Bank Holidays) Hotels to provide discounted cardboard tickets to all guests (something I've seen and used in Europe) Go-ahead for Sutton Tramlink extension alt fuel bus trials - including trolleybus on route ELT1, trolleybus with capacitor energy storage unwired section on ELT2, bio-methane on a suburban route which includes semi-rural sections, battery + capacitor with overhead opportunity charging (ABB / Volvo system) on another suburban route (167?) TfL website should detect type of computer it is being viewed on and only show smartphone type pages on small screen smartphones For security TfL website should not use adobe flash
Simon
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 14, 2016 23:19:26 GMT
With this hopper system - if you just miss your connection and have over an hour to wail [sic!} couldn't you just jump on any bus for one stop or even get off after touching in to avoid paying more than one fare? No - neither the initial system nor the planned future one will reset the clock every time you touch in. For technical reasons, only one change will initially be possible (this is simply an extension of the through bus/tram fares between New Addington and Croydon). The future scheme will not make a further charge if you have already paid within the previous hour, regardless of how many times you touch in during that hour. I see nothing iniquitous about charging again if your first bus took nearly an hour. That is already far longer than an average journey. Basically the measure will aim to make fares more closely aligned with distance rather than number of changes. A blunt instrument, maybe, but less so than what we have at present.
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Antje
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Post by Antje on May 15, 2016 0:09:42 GMT
This thread is in danger of heading all over the place! We have an existing thread for ticket office closures. Let's keep the discussion to the thread title. For other proposals, feel free to use the RIPAS boards. Thanks. Hi, I plan to create a R-RIPAS thread on this with more details when I have the time. It just the operation of TfL has become annoying like a fresh install of Windows 10 with express settings.
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Post by patrickb on May 15, 2016 1:09:25 GMT
Sounds dodgy, if there are no staff present on the gateline/in the ticket hall the gates are meant to be left open (or a wide luggage gate open as a minimum). The gates at Edgware have been open a fair few times in the past month when I've gone through! ...and people are scratching their heads over as to how fare evasion is on the increase. I can guarantee you that one station has barriers left open somewhere on the Hainault Loop everyday (Roding Valley exempt). On many occasions its Barkingside or Grange Hill but I've also previously witnessed barriers left open at Wanstead and Woodford at Weekends.
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Post by rsdworker on May 15, 2016 5:45:47 GMT
the travel centers can sell tickets as well so dont need to have separate ticket office - in past travel centres often sold tickets for visitors but for non travel centre stations - a smaller ticket kiosk like found in WMATA and New york subway but this can be used either - with hand held ticket machines - pop up ticket spot or at customer assistance booths near gates - can be unmannned when no demand so kisy meed 1 staff to do ticketing at quieter stations the busy stations would have Travel centers to provide alot of infomation and more open
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Post by crusty54 on May 15, 2016 17:54:44 GMT
With this hopper system - if you just miss your connection and have over an hour to wail [sic!} couldn't you just jump on any bus for one stop or even get off after touching in to avoid paying more than one fare? No - neither the initial system nor the planned future one will reset the clock every time you touch in. For technical reasons, only one change will initially be possible (this is simply an extension of the through bus/tram fares between New Addington and Croydon). The future scheme will not make a further charge if you have already paid within the previous hour, regardless of how many times you touch in during that hour. I see nothing iniquitous about charging again if your first bus took nearly an hour. That is already far longer than an average journey. Basically the measure will aim to make fares more closely aligned with distance rather than number of changes. A blunt instrument, maybe, but less so than what we have at present. doesn't the daily cap cut in at three trips?
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Post by snoggle on May 15, 2016 22:20:10 GMT
These are my wishlist items for 100 days and beyond too: - Key ticket offices should reopen. - Improve the balance between security and privacy in wake of a certain spying scandal by improving and assuring the confidentiality of customer and CCTV data. - Replace the annoying holograms with simpler digital signs. - Maybe scale down the Cable Car promotions so that Emirates will have less reason to keep the sponsorship. - A single but more unique jingle, and a single automated announcer for all station announcements like what the SNCF does: Ding dongs are getting boring after I visited France many times. - Multilingual announcements for certain topics (public safety, etc) to make tourism a lot easier. - A mascot for the tube, preferably a mole or a Japanese animé character. - Make the interior of the NTfL more exciting like the 1990s. - Bid to operate other metro systems like what RATP does. - Railfan windows that allows customers to see ahead like a normal window but not annoy operators. Although I know something like this exists, I don't remember the exact type of window that does that. - Update the Liveries to fit both the GLA and TFL brands. - Return the TfL logo to mixed case and remove the motto, as UPPERCASE text is basically shouting like that Drill Sargent in Apocalypse Now. - Line numbers and letters (Undergound Line 1=Bakerloo, Undergound Line 2=Central and so on; Overground A1=North London to CLJ, Overground A2 North London to RMD and so on). - Replace IE on all TFL computers with Firefox and Chrome because modern trend. - Rename a station Nelson Mandela since Paris names stations after famous people. - Have me look after the Tube Map like Paul Garbutt. The only remotely important thing on that list is the ticket office one. All the rest I either don't understand the point you're making or they are so peripheral to the fundamentals of running the public transport network well that they're irrelevant. Sorry. If the Mayor was concentrating on stuff like this people would be rightly asking what he was doing!
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Post by snoggle on May 15, 2016 22:29:22 GMT
No - neither the initial system nor the planned future one will reset the clock every time you touch in. For technical reasons, only one change will initially be possible (this is simply an extension of the through bus/tram fares between New Addington and Croydon). The future scheme will not make a further charge if you have already paid within the previous hour, regardless of how many times you touch in during that hour. I see nothing iniquitous about charging again if your first bus took nearly an hour. That is already far longer than an average journey. Basically the measure will aim to make fares more closely aligned with distance rather than number of changes. A blunt instrument, maybe, but less so than what we have at present. doesn't the daily cap cut in at three trips? Being pedantic then yes it currently kicks in after three separate journeys charged at £1.50 each. In future it may the case that it kicks in after 3, 4, 5 or 6 journeys depending on how many times people manage to activate a free transfer within an hour. It will all boil down to journey times, connecting times and time spent at any intermediate destinations between bus journeys. Goodness knows what combinations will be feasible come 2018 when unlimited changes in an hour become feasible. I also wonder if we will have a daily cap by then - the Mayor has said he'll freeze fares but he didn't say he'd freeze the product range or all the commercial rules governing tickets and travel products. Note that he's asked TfL for a "fares structure" review for 2017.
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Post by phoenixcronin on May 15, 2016 22:30:35 GMT
These are my wishlist items for 100 days and beyond too: - Key ticket offices should reopen. - Improve the balance between security and privacy in wake of a certain spying scandal by improving and assuring the confidentiality of customer and CCTV data. - Replace the annoying holograms with simpler digital signs. - Maybe scale down the Cable Car promotions so that Emirates will have less reason to keep the sponsorship. - A single but more unique jingle, and a single automated announcer for all station announcements like what the SNCF does: Ding dongs are getting boring after I visited France many times. - Multilingual announcements for certain topics (public safety, etc) to make tourism a lot easier. - A mascot for the tube, preferably a mole or a Japanese animé character. - Make the interior of the NTfL more exciting like the 1990s. - Bid to operate other metro systems like what RATP does. - Railfan windows that allows customers to see ahead like a normal window but not annoy operators. Although I know something like this exists, I don't remember the exact type of window that does that. - Update the Liveries to fit both the GLA and TFL brands. - Return the TfL logo to mixed case and remove the motto, as UPPERCASE text is basically shouting like that Drill Sargent in Apocalypse Now. - Line numbers and letters (Undergound Line 1=Bakerloo, Undergound Line 2=Central and so on; Overground A1=North London to CLJ, Overground A2 North London to RMD and so on). - Replace IE on all TFL computers with Firefox and Chrome because modern trend. - Rename a station Nelson Mandela since Paris names stations after famous people. - Have me look after the Tube Map like Paul Garbutt. The only thing I agree with is the hologram thing, which is truly awful and bizarre.
With regards to "railfan windows" I believe this is possible in places such as the NYC Subway where some stock have half width drivers cabs. All LU/LO/Future Crossrail stock have full width cabs, so I'm not sure how it would be possible.
As stated by others, most of the rest of the suggestions are either so trivial so as to be of little relevant to the public/ or simply comical.
Sorry!
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Post by brigham on May 16, 2016 9:22:37 GMT
I like the 'station naming' point. If you name a station after one criminal, you can hardly refuse the other two!
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 16, 2016 10:04:43 GMT
We do have stations named after people - Victoria, St Pancras, St Mary le Bone, King George V, Royal Albert, Prince Regent Regents Park, King (GeorgeIV)'s Cross (same chap), Earl (of Oxford)'s Court, (earl of) Oxford Circus, (William) Baker Street, (Lord) Liverpool Street, (Duchess of) Glouceter Road, (earl of) Leicester Square (Earl of) Richmond (aka Henry VII), (Duke of) Lancaster Gate
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Post by countryman on May 16, 2016 11:01:08 GMT
These are my wishlist items for 100 days and beyond too: - Key ticket offices should reopen. - Improve the balance between security and privacy in wake of a certain spying scandal by improving and assuring the confidentiality of customer and CCTV data. - Replace the annoying holograms with simpler digital signs. - Maybe scale down the Cable Car promotions so that Emirates will have less reason to keep the sponsorship. - A single but more unique jingle, and a single automated announcer for all station announcements like what the SNCF does: Ding dongs are getting boring after I visited France many times. - Multilingual announcements for certain topics (public safety, etc) to make tourism a lot easier. - A mascot for the tube, preferably a mole or a Japanese animé character. - Make the interior of the NTfL more exciting like the 1990s. - Bid to operate other metro systems like what RATP does. - Railfan windows that allows customers to see ahead like a normal window but not annoy operators. Although I know something like this exists, I don't remember the exact type of window that does that. - Update the Liveries to fit both the GLA and TFL brands. - Return the TfL logo to mixed case and remove the motto, as UPPERCASE text is basically shouting like that Drill Sargent in Apocalypse Now. - Line numbers and letters (Undergound Line 1=Bakerloo, Undergound Line 2=Central and so on; Overground A1=North London to CLJ, Overground A2 North London to RMD and so on). - Replace IE on all TFL computers with Firefox and Chrome because modern trend. - Rename a station Nelson Mandela since Paris names stations after famous people. - Have me look after the Tube Map like Paul Garbutt. The only thing I agree with is the hologram thing, which is truly awful and bizarre.
With regards to "railfan windows" I believe this is possible in places such as the NYC Subway where some stock have half width drivers cabs. All LU/LO/Future Crossrail stock have full width cabs, so I'm not sure how it would be possible.
As stated by others, most of the rest of the suggestions are either so trivial so as to be of little relevant to the public/ or simply comical.
Sorry!
I was in New York a few weeks ago. On boarding one train on the rear car I saw a window on the right hand side of a full width cab, giving a view of the tracks behind. Also, in Paris some stock had a heavily tinted window in the inside cab door so you could see a little of the line in front.
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