paulsw2
My Train Runs For Those Who Wait Not Wait For Those That Run
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Post by paulsw2 on Apr 28, 2016 1:54:18 GMT
It means people buying period tickets at origin for a station just up the line, plus a similar 'short' ticket at destination end and then travelling 'free' in the middle part of the journey. I can recall a snap revenue check at Ealing Broadway many years ago at the interface between what was then BR and the LT lines finding this to have been anything but a rare occurrence (e.g., Hayes & Harlington to Southall plus Tottenham Court Road to Holborn). Presumably this involves a station where you can get to a ticket machine without having to go through a barrier? How many LU stations do not have ticket barriers? And, any idea where the name comes from? Several people here seem to be aware of it but Google isn't (at least not in the first entries). It was also called Dumb bell as well because valid ticket for start and finish but nothing in the middle edited coz I just notice someone else mentioned Dumb Bell as well |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Apr 28, 2016 7:24:00 GMT
Sorry! It refers to people holding Travelcards for say Zones 3 and 4 but regularly travelling via Zones 1 and 2. On a magnetic ticket you could not be charged automatically for travel via Zones 1 and 2. You had to caught by a revenue inspector. With Oyster the journey logic will take a charge from the PAYG balance or make it negative and thus prevent you from travelling until you have restored a zero or positive balance. Having a "hole in the middle" of the zones is the "doughnut" reference. What RDM refers to is "Dumbbell" fraud - having two cards for each end of a trip and nothing in between. There have been examples of this on National Rail where people have a short season to get in to the NR station and, say, an Oyster to get through gates in London. As LU no longer has point to point seasons or single zone travelcards then such fraud is much less likely these days. If you try to do it with two Oyster Cards then the odd journey patterns could be detected and the cards (and the user) intercepted. Thanks. That makes perfect sense, now. Presumably it's a term that is pretty much internal to LU, hence it's invisibility to Google. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 28, 2016 9:40:08 GMT
Presumably it's a term that is pretty much internal to LU, hence it's invisibility to Google. Googling "doughnut rail ticket fraud" found a few references, such as this one |
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Post by trt on Apr 28, 2016 9:49:23 GMT
Nah. Revenue are at Bushey at least one week in every five now. Which is surely a LOROL issue and nothing to do with LU's ability to protect its revenue? Change to Bakerloo at Harrow. Revenue sharing surely makes evasion a TfL issue as a whole rather than LU/LOROL/TfL Buses/TfL Rail/DLR thing? |
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Post by bassmike on Apr 28, 2016 10:32:13 GMT
Pardon my ignorance but can you still buy return tickets on L U ? (shows how long since I was a regular user!)
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 28, 2016 10:44:10 GMT
I believe you can still by single and return tickets, but they are zonal rather than between two named stations.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 28, 2016 21:27:02 GMT
Which is surely a LOROL issue and nothing to do with LU's ability to protect its revenue? Change to Bakerloo at Harrow. Revenue sharing surely makes evasion a TfL issue as a whole rather than LU/LOROL/TfL Buses/TfL Rail/DLR thing? Err no. AFAIK RPIs only have authority on the property of the company they work for or, for bus RPIs, on the vehicles used to operate contracted TfL bus services. Furthermore there is no revenue sharing at company level. LOROL is accountable for Bushey station and all that goes on there. Given LOROL receive a financial gain from reducing fraud under their contract with TfL they will want to be clear that their actions are responsible for any fraud reduction as measured on their services. Furthermore LOROL's revenue will reach TfL's coffers via the National Rail settlement processes not directly into TfL's bank a/c (AIUI). Despite appearances LOROL and TfL Rail are locked into National Rail agreements and processes and there's nowt TfL can do about that. I agree with you that TfL can take a global view if it wants to but revenue collection is a delegated matter to various parts of its business structure via Transport Trading - revenue through LU stations / LOROL / TfL / DLR / Visitor Centres, via electronic means for Contactless Cards, via settlement agreements with ATOC / RSP and contracted operation of revenue systems / Oyster Ticket Stops. Finally there is the contracted operation of Croydon Tramlink and the Dangleway. Each company will be accountable for meeting TfL's requirements and for ensuring the full accounting and bank transfer of revenue taken. Clearly there are also a wide range of settlement and reconciliation processes in place to ensure that travel is properly recorded, fares charged and money deducted from Oyster Card balances. I dare say there are accounting adjustments that are netted off to reflect the "shared" revenue on the Queens Park - Harrow section and who is entitled to what. Nonetheless there is no exact way to measure and the allocate revenue where there are interavailable services operated by LU / DLR / Overground / TfL Rail / TOCs. [as ever, happy to be corrected as I am sure things have moved on since I departed the portals of 20 Cranbourn St] |
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Post by jacko1 on May 2, 2016 21:19:20 GMT
So if you steal from a supermarket, the security guards have the power to stop you from leaving the store. Should be the same on the Underground, otherwise the whole thing is utterly pointless. And now, you are bound to get more people evading because they will have watched the programme and realised that if they want to do a runner, nobody apart from a police officer can stop them. I may be wrong,but I thought ttis on the main lines have the power to detain a suspect until sorted or police to arrive. would have thought that lul inspectors would have the same powers? |
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