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Post by stapler on Feb 14, 2016 8:15:58 GMT
On 30-31 January, the Central Line was suspended between Leytonstone and Epping, which resulted in a large number of double-deck buses from various operators providing the replacement.
Between Loughton, Theydon and Epping, this meant running along heavily wooded A and B roads not normally traversed by TFL (or any decker) buses.
This week, I saw an old, deroofed Volvo bus lopping trees on the A121 (and causing an almighty traffic jam!). Service buses on the A121 here are provided by EOS single deckers, plus one double decker a day on Go-ahead route 575.
This prompted me to wonder:
Who awards the contracts for replacement buses, and is there any kind of preference to TFL franchisees?
Who assesses the suitability of roads for the routes to run on?
Who, generally, undertakes tree lopping, which in my youth was carried out by LT service vehicles (generally pre-war ex-STLs at the time).
What liaison is there between TFL (which part?) and police and highway authorities over rail replacement routes, and do they have a veto over their routeing?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 14, 2016 10:24:40 GMT
Hopefully Member deansullivan can login to give a full explanation.
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Post by hounddog on Feb 14, 2016 12:58:52 GMT
I was once delayed for about 45 minutes on a RRB between Arnos Grove and Southgate because instead of turning right out of Arnos and following the 298 bus route the RRB turned left, straight into major road works on the North Circular/Bowes Road junction and sat there for 40 minutes. This was about 8.30 in the evening so they'd had plenty of time to work out that that route wasn't a good idea. Totally brainless on somebody's part.
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Post by crusty54 on Feb 14, 2016 19:21:50 GMT
in my good old London Transport days the route would have been checked by the local manager in a bus of the type to be used. This would have identified low hanging trees, low bridges and tight turns etc.
At the time I worked in South Division at Camberwell Garage and had to find enough buses for the service. This was quite easy as Walworth had a lot of Red Arrow buses with drivers only rostered for Mondays to Fridays. No cash handling so they wouldn't do weekend overtime on a normal route.
These were, of course, single deckers and avoided most height problems but their 36ft length did cause a few problems.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 15, 2016 12:09:12 GMT
On 30-31 January, the Central Line was suspended between Leytonstone and Epping, which resulted in a large number of double-deck buses from various operators providing the replacement. Between Loughton, Theydon and Epping, this meant running along heavily wooded A and B roads not normally traversed by TFL (or any decker) buses. This week, I saw an old, deroofed Volvo bus lopping trees on the A121 (and causing an almighty traffic jam!). Service buses on the A121 here are provided by EOS single deckers, plus one double decker a day on Go-ahead route 575. This prompted me to wonder: Who awards the contracts for replacement buses, and is there any kind of preference to TFL franchisees? Who assesses the suitability of roads for the routes to run on? Who, generally, undertakes tree lopping, which in my youth was carried out by LT service vehicles (generally pre-war ex-STLs at the time). What liaison is there between TFL (which part?) and police and highway authorities over rail replacement routes, and do they have a veto over their routeing? I think TfL has used their bus contracting section to set up call off contracts with a range of operators for rail replacement works. There is a clear preference for using low floor vehicles and only from approved contractors. However this does NOT seem to prevent an element of sub contracting to other operators. Given the scale of some operations this is hardly surprising given there is not much flex in major fleets on weekdays during school term times. Clearly weekends and school holidays are different - hence the scheduling of major works to these times. TfL also take a more relaxed view as to vehicle suitability and age during tube strikes - hence the "vintage bus rally" that turns out when there is one.  I would expect TfL use their own area bus controllers to assess route suitability. They have to do this if regular buses are diverted away from their usual routes. Also if TfL are intending to run buses down a new road they will conduct a vehicle test with the police and operator reps. I don't know if the same is done for RRS but someone has to make sure low bridges etc are identified and avoided especially if hired vehicles do not have I-Bus fitted (it has a low bridge detector / alarm function built in). I think the area controllers go and fix the RRS direction signs at key junctions - they're in the same "house style" as used for other diversions but in different colours. Not sure about tree lopping but probably a local authority thing these days as they would hold info on tree preservation orders etc. Very happy to be corrected if I've got stuff wrong. |
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Post by stapler on Feb 15, 2016 19:04:01 GMT
snoggle, I can't think that local authorities would do lopping in these days of huge spending cuts unless absolutely forced to do so!
Good point re low bridges; we had an EOS decker having its top deck shaved off under the bridge just north of Loughton station last year. It wasn't on RRS.
By the way, TROs are not generally placed on street trees, but of course if any tree was growing out from a neighbouring garden in a conservation area, it would be illegal to lop it (from an old bus or otherwise) without 28 days notice to the LPA.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 15, 2016 20:28:01 GMT
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Post by stapler on Feb 15, 2016 21:53:29 GMT
Kingston may have more cash than Essex. But hedges are a rather different matter. If the hedge is impeding pedestrian or vehicular traffic, then the Highway Authority will routinely order the owner to cut it back, and threaten to do it themselves and recharge him (plus an administration fee). I expect the Kingston Rangers will soon send in their bill for virtually destroying that hedge. Also some highway authorities have contracts with farmers for hedge flailing - the farmers often like it as "winter work".
Doubt all this would apply to clearances for double deckers.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
Posts: 1,275
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Post by roythebus on Feb 17, 2016 1:44:40 GMT
Whilst I can't answer for Dean, he did divulge a bit of information to me the other week about TfL tendering. Buses must meet the TfL emission regulations, there's no high floor buses allowed, buses should have Centrecomm radios and ideally IBUS with "sonia" announcements. However, TfL know that the south east runs out of buses at weekends, especially where there's a few big jobs on, but all participants must be TfL approved operators.
You'll find most contracts are let to the big London groups and they are responsible for management of the respective jobs. fFor instance, on the Victoria Line closure in 2015 Sullivan was awarded the job; he subcontracted duties out to Redbrige, ensign and few others as the peak vehicle requirement (pvr) was greater than his available fleet.
I was also told that once an operator had been awarded a particular job, they were normally offered that job should it arise again, so you will find that Sullivan does the Baker Street-Wembley closures, the South Tottenham-Barking, Gunnersbury-Willesden Junction and so on.
TfL provide the signage and route to follow and very often it's NOT the quickest route. NIMBYs abound in certain areas, for instance on the Baker Street-Wembley, buses towards Baker Street can't dive down the side road from Willesden Green to Cricklewood because of the nimbus who live down there, so the journey takes 10 minutes longer. At Iverson Road Kilburn, buses can't go left to West Hampstead, but have to make a 20 minute detour via Quex Road and West Hampstead Lane at the top of Abbey Road. So the short cut could potentially save 30 minutes on the run time, and could potentially save 4 buses on the pvr!
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Post by stapler on Feb 17, 2016 7:39:38 GMT
Thanks Roy, most illuminating. Hope Dean will reply as still perplexed about lopping....
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