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Post by camperdown9 on Dec 12, 2015 10:17:00 GMT
Hi
Other half has surprisingly expressed an interest in model trains. So we are going to buy each other a joint Christmas present of a train set. I wanted underground trains but that doesn't look possible.
So we thought about a basic kit which includes track and a Eurostar train.
Thing is we really don't know what we are doing. So I need some advice.
1. What's the difference between digital and standard ?
2. What would you buy if you were just starting out. The budget is £200.?
3. Are there any specialist train stores in London. Or where should I go?
4. Any other advice?
Thanks in advance
Alex
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 12, 2015 11:09:29 GMT
Hi Other half has surprisingly expressed an interest in model trains. So we are going to buy each other a joint Christmas present of a train set. I wanted underground trains but that doesn't look possible. So we thought about a basic kit which includes track and a Eurostar train. Thing is we really don't know what we are doing. So I need some advice. 1. What's the difference between digital and standard ? 2. What would you buy if you were just starting out. The budget is £200.? 3. Ar e there any specialist train stores in London. Or where should I go?4. Any other advice? Thanks in advance Alex "Model Zone" as was is now part of WH Smith. Could be worth a look in their larger stores? |
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Post by John Tuthill on Dec 12, 2015 11:13:04 GMT
Hi Other half has surprisingly expressed an interest in model trains. So we are going to buy each other a joint Christmas present of a train set. I wanted underground trains but that doesn't look possible. So we thought about a basic kit which includes track and a Eurostar train. Thing is we really don't know what we are doing. So I need some advice. 1. What's the difference between digital and standard ? 2. What would you buy if you were just starting out. The budget is £200.? 3. Ar e there any specialist train stores in London. Or where should I go?4. Any other advice? Thanks in advance Alex "Model Zone" as was is now part of WH Smith. Could be worth a look in their larger stores? "all in London.co.uk" Just found this web page, it lists all London's model shops. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 12, 2015 12:02:47 GMT
Googling Hornby Eurostar suggests that you can get a set including a basic oval well within that budget.
The Hornby website has some sets cheap enough to be able to get two within your budget, which would probably be more interesting to operate than one big "tailchaser", especially if there are wagons to shunt. The track from two sets, intended to make up two ovals, can be configured in many more interesting ways as well
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Post by snoggle on Dec 12, 2015 12:04:16 GMT
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Post by peterc on Dec 12, 2015 13:38:23 GMT
First thing is to work out where it will go and the space that you have available. That will give you your available choices on scale.
Next decide what your interest is - historic or modern image.
Now start looking at what is on the market.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 14:46:50 GMT
Rails Of Sheffield has some Hornby train sets in its advent calendar countdown today only. For example Pendolino |
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Post by crusty54 on Dec 12, 2015 19:16:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2015 13:40:09 GMT
1. What's the difference between digital and standard ? To make it simple: With DC (analouge), you controll the voltage and polarity on the track. Two locomotives on the same track will do about the same thing. With DCC (digital), you controll the locomotives. Every locomotive has an address and only the locomotive with the choosen address will move. Let's imagine a terminus station with an arriving express train to explain the differences. The actors are LMS Paciffic 6233 working the express into the terminus and LMS Jinty 7100 acting as a station pilot. The driver of 6233 arrives at the terminus: DC: His controller is set to the appropriate block sections DCC: His controller is set to locomotive 6233 He stops the train at the buffer stop. After the "passengers" have alighted and after 6233 has been uncoupled, the station pilot 7100 will take the empty coaching stock to the carriage sidings. DC: You need to turn off the juice for the section, where 6233 is standing. Now 7100 can couple onto the train and do her work, while 6233 remains at the buffer stop. DCC: The driver of 7100 sets his controller to locomotive 7100 and only operates the station pilot. 6233 won't do a thing, unless her driver tells her to do so. DCC requires a chip in each locomotive (also called) decoder, which is either already fitted ("DCC fitted" or even "DCC sound fitted") or can be installed via plug&play (DCC ready) or requires hardwiring the chip (especially on older models). The price for one chip ranges from about a tenner (all you really need) up to more than £100 (literally including all the whistles and bells) for chips with sound. You also need a command station (basic ones are included in DCC train sets) and you want to have two controllers to operate the railway as a team. 2. What would you buy if you were just starting out. The budget is £200.? It depends on your preferences. £250 would get you a Hornby R1173 "Western Master" DCC train set including a 2721 class GWR pannier tank (DCC fitted), a couple of waggons, an oval with a siding and the Hornby "e-link" DCC system (requires a computer to work, but can by controlled from smartphones/tablets, thus saving money for a second controller) for her and a Bachmann 30-076 or 30-077 "Midnight Metropolitan" train set (including a London Transport pannier tank, a couple of waggons, an oval of track and a DC controller) and a DCC decoder for you. There might be some money left for some additional track. Prices:Hornby R1173 is £109.50 at Rails of Sheffield (online) Bachmann 30-076 or 30-077 is £104.99 at the LT Museum, £99.99 at Janes Trains (near Tooting Station) and if you shop around, it can be found for about £90 online. A chip for the Bachmann pannier tank (8-pin socket) should be less than £20. 3. Are there any specialist train stores in London. Or where should I go? Janes Trains near Tooting Station (lots of second hand stuff), Kent Garden Railways near St. Mary Cray station Don't be afraid to ask questions, get inspiration (exhibitions, magazines, visits to preserved railways etc.) and most importantly: Have fun together! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 13, 2015 14:57:03 GMT
For DC, operating more than one train requires the track to be separated into electrically isolated sections.
For the terminus situation you would need a separate electrical section at the buffer stops long enough to accommodate the locomotive, to allow it to remain stationary as the pilot comes and goes.
Points are usually designed so that the branch for which the points are not set is isolated from the route for which the points are set - so that a siding is only live when the points are set for it unless you provide a separate feed to the siding. This feature also makes it difficult to set up two trains to run on conflicting routes, as one of the two converging lines will be electrically isolated.
As B100s says , the speed and direction the train moves is controlled by the dc voltage applied to the track by the controller for that section - from +12V to -12V. The train itself has no control system - the motor simply responds to the voltage applied to it through the track.
A double-header will run very slowly on a DC system, as each loco is taking only half the total voltage available.
DCC is more complex, but closer to reality as you control the "train driver" - the chip on board the train.
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Post by brigham on Dec 14, 2015 15:08:00 GMT
Go for the DCC if you intend to do more than run in an oval and shunt a siding. I wish it had been around when I was 'in the scene'. You ended up with enough wires, switches and relays to build a telephone exchange, and you needed the GPO training manuals to keep it working!
You still couldn't drive 'from the cab' even after all that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 19:35:01 GMT
Go for the DCC if you intend to do more than run in an oval and shunt a siding. I wish it had been around when I was 'in the scene'. You ended up with enough wires, switches and relays to build a telephone exchange, and you needed the GPO training manuals to keep it working! You still couldn't drive 'from the cab' even after all that. Absolutely correct! The german railway museum in Nürnberg has a large analouge HO-gauge layout with semi-automatic operation controlled by a NX-panel, about 5000 relays and a couple of kilometers of wires. When the builder of the control system passed away, they had a very hard job of figuring out how it all works. DCC requires configuring off the shelf components (e.g. programming locomotive addresses), while DC requires old-school electrical solutions. |
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Post by camperdown9 on Dec 17, 2015 12:42:31 GMT
Hi All Firstly thank you so much for your help, you have been great. Unfortunately I have more questions. (sorry) I went to Ian Allan this morning and the guy there said that if I wanted two trains and was starting out that I should either buy..... a) A pack which includes a train, some track and a controller. A second train A DCC chip for the second train or b) A pack with includes a train and some track A second train 2 DCC chips And a controller (or I can use a laptop to control trains) Unfortunately the only pack they had that included a train, track and controller was for a steam train and I didn't really want that. I really wanted a London Underground Train or maybe Eurostar or maybe Javelin. So here is my next set of questions. 1. Are there different types of DCC chips for different trains? Or does any chip work any train that its set to? 2. If I don't buy a controller and want to use a computer to control the train does it worth with a Mac? (Or is it only compatible with microsoft?) 3. If I do buy a controller what should I be looking at. The guy said "I think" that a basic controller starts at £35. If I spend more what do I get for my money? 4. Please don't laugh at this question. The closest thing that I have seen to what I want is www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk/models/special-commissions/product/s-stock-4-car-set-motorised.htmlIf I bought that and say a Hornby Eurostar kit and a controller, or similar. Will they work together? Can I use a DCC chip to control the S stock train? Or are they completely different systems? Thanks Alex |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 20:34:52 GMT
Hi All 1. Are there different types of DCC chips for different trains? Or does any chip work any train that its set to? There are various different types of DCC chips aviable. If the locomotive is "DCC ready", it usually has a type of socket (e.g. the Bachmann S stock has a 21-pin socket in each DM). You should get a matching decoder for the socket (refer to the manual), then it is just a case of opening the model, replacing the blanking plug with the chip and done. You can swap chips around as you please, as long as the socket is the same. If you have to hardwire the chip, buy one with a wire harness. If it has a plug for a socket, you can cut it off. You need some soldering to swap them, yet it is no problem. Sound decoders are locomotive specific for obvious reasons, but they work on other models just like normal chips do. The decoder will keep the programmed properties and thus the locomotive will "take" the address of the chip fitted. Most new chips have the address 3 set as a default, but it can easily be changed to the desired value. Hi All 2. If I don't buy a controller and want to use a computer to control the train does it worth with a Mac? (Or is it only compatible with microsoft?) It depends on the combination of hardware and software. The Hornby elink system unfortunally requires Windows to work, as Railmaster is Windows only, but there are various DCC systems controllable via OSX. You can even go as far as having handheld controllers, computer controll and smartphone/tablet controll at the same time. But at any given time, you need three things in your system: - A command station to generate the DCC signal
- A booster to combine the signal with enough juice to power stuff
- A human interface to do stuff
Some DCC systems are an "all-in-one" solution with everything in one box (e.g. Uhlenbrock Intellibox or Hornby Elite). Just plug in the transformer and the track and start playing.
Some DCC systems are "modular" with components doing specific tasks (e.g. Lenz). Here you need the required components for your requirements.
There are usually sets aviable with everything needed to get started (except for a transformer in some cases).
3. If I do buy a controller what should I be looking at. The guy said "I think" that a basic controller starts at £35. If I spend more what do I get for my money? Concerning DC controllers, £35 gets you a brand new british-made Gaugemaster Combi single track controller with a transformer and lifetime warranty. 12V DC controllers can be found as cheap as chips at exhibitions, swapmeets or online or can be soldered together from scratch. The Bachmann controller included in their modern train sets is quite good and can be found for less than £25 online (that's the price for a boxed one at Hattons). It is a true pitty that Bachmann doesn't do a modern image set, but they at least do a London Underground train set (The Midnight Metropolitan set includes a London Underground train, it is just a short steam hauled goods or departmental train). There is no need to spend absurd amounts of money on a controller, unless you have a justification. DCC has far to many systems, solutions and ways to explain. Both the Eurostar, the S stock and pretty much all british OO gauge stuff of the last half century runs on 12V DC straight from the box. For DC operation, just put the train on the track, check the signal (SPAD TRAP!  ) and operate the controller. If you like to "chip" the S stock, you have to chip both DMs and some people around here already might have done it. All modern DCC chips are able to work on 12V DC aswell. |
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Post by flippyff on Dec 30, 2015 15:21:49 GMT
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Post by camperdown9 on Dec 30, 2015 22:05:00 GMT
damn....oh well we wouldn't of been able to play with it on Christmas day! |
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Dec 31, 2015 14:09:58 GMT
damn....oh well we wouldn't of been able to play with it on Christmas day! A train set is not just for Christmas , it my case it became my hobby and when I was looking for work I joined London Transport , still have trains as a hobby but now they are Live Steam Garden Railways. |
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) and operate the controller.
