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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 23:22:32 GMT
When some of the National Rail suburban routes from Liverpool Street were transferred to London Overground operation, new route diagrams inside some Victoria Line trains were changed to show Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central as having connections to London Overground services. Almost immediately, these route diagrams were covered over with temporary stickers, to reflect the fact there was /would be no Victoria Line service between Finsbury Park and Walthamstow Central, during the period when a new crossover was being installed at the latter station.
Now those works are done, but I've noticed that the route diagrams now show connections at Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central as being National Rail interchanges, not London Overground interchanges.
I know, of course, that London Overground routes are actually a part of the National Rail network, but why is the interchange not now described as a LO interchange? In the case of Walthamstow Central, the only National Rail services that call there are the LO trains! This is similarly true for Blackhorse Road station, yet the interchange is described as being a LO connection.
Can anyone enlighten me as to why there seems to be this inconsistency ?
<<Spelling mistake in subject line corrected>>
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Post by stapler on Nov 12, 2015 12:12:39 GMT
Somebody made a booboo? Probably the same person that misspelt Walthamstow in the first roundels there!
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Post by snoggle on Nov 12, 2015 17:57:41 GMT
I think the answer is very simple. When the closure stickers were removed the glue was so strong it also pulled off the overlaid London Overground interchange stickers. This has happened before with other overlays being overlaid a second or third time and it simply not being possible to remove each level of sticker without damaging a lower level. I've noticed that such force has had to be used to take the temporary stickers off that in some cases the original line diagram has been pulled slightly loose.
I don't think there's anything suspect or suspicious here. I just think we've got a bit of a mess with stickers and I would trust that someone has ordered replacements and the fitting of new line diagrams or overlays as appropriate. I used to be involved in ordering and signing off procurement of customer info orders so I speak with a little bit of insight.
The one thing that hasn't changed which I find surprising is the audio / visual announcements of the interchanges at the north end. I'd have expected them to refer to London Overground (where appropriate) by now but it still seems to be National Rail services at Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central and, I think, Blackhorse Road but not 100% certain on the last one.
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Post by stapler on Nov 12, 2015 18:26:57 GMT
So the same person specified the wrong kind of adhesive on the stickers?
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Post by MoreToJack on Nov 12, 2015 18:27:52 GMT
The one thing that hasn't changed which I find surprising is the audio / visual announcements of the interchanges at the north end. I'd have expected them to refer to London Overground (where appropriate) by now but it still seems to be National Rail services at Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central and, I think, Blackhorse Road but not 100% certain on the last one. Surprised they've not been changed yet! I can't remember the exact wording, but we were definitely told via a Traffic Circular earlier in the year that it would be fixed before the end of the Summer. A World Class service right there... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2015 22:46:58 GMT
The one thing that hasn't changed which I find surprising is the audio / visual announcements of the interchanges at the north end. I'd have expected them to refer to London Overground (where appropriate) by now but it still seems to be National Rail services at Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central and, I think, Blackhorse Road but not 100% certain on the last one. Surprised they've not been changed yet! I can't remember the exact wording, but we were definitely told via a Traffic Circular earlier in the year that it would be fixed before the end of the Summer. A World Class service right there... Couldn't agree more. There is no valid excuse for these not being changed soon. I really don't understand why it should take this long just for 2 stations! It didn't take that long in the case of Blackhorse Road. The appropriate wordings are already in existance, they just need to be applied to those stations. |
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Post by snoggle on Nov 13, 2015 12:54:53 GMT
So the same person specified the wrong kind of adhesive on the stickers? Who knows? I can't ever recall a Customer Info request specifying the adhesive - I assume there is a standard somewhere that specifies what is needed. I'm not sure why we seem to be "pursuing" someone to blame. Surely we just need the diagrams to be fixed? |
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Post by snoggle on Nov 13, 2015 12:58:51 GMT
The one thing that hasn't changed which I find surprising is the audio / visual announcements of the interchanges at the north end. I'd have expected them to refer to London Overground (where appropriate) by now but it still seems to be National Rail services at Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central and, I think, Blackhorse Road but not 100% certain on the last one. Surprised they've not been changed yet! I can't remember the exact wording, but we were definitely told via a Traffic Circular earlier in the year that it would be fixed before the end of the Summer. A World Class service right there... What's more puzzling to me about this is that the system is clearly flexible enough to accept ad hoc messages and to have them play over specific sections of line. This happens regularly at weekends when there is engineering work - "London Overground services at Highbury and Islington are suspended" "National Rail services at Tottenham Hale are suspended" etc etc. Even then there are some very odd inconsistencies as to what is said when. Sometimes messages are played in full and then next time they play, often on departure from stations, they are truncated. I am surprised that given the flexibility that the regular standard messages haven't been easily updated. I'm sure there's something about the system set up that I'm missing! |
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Post by peterc on Nov 13, 2015 13:19:12 GMT
You mean adhesive that stayed stuck rather than having stickers with the staying power of Postit notes?
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Post by crusty54 on Nov 13, 2015 17:38:42 GMT
You can specify temporary or permanent vinyl. The Overground stickers should have have been permanent and the engineering works temporary.
In the good old days of Publicity/Marketing offices this would have been done by people who understood the job.
Nowadays cheapest is best.
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Post by crusty54 on Nov 15, 2015 15:42:51 GMT
So the same person specified the wrong kind of adhesive on the stickers? Who knows? I can't ever recall a Customer Info request specifying the adhesive - I assume there is a standard somewhere that specifies what is needed. I'm not sure why we seem to be "pursuing" someone to blame. Surely we just need the diagrams to be fixed? Unfortunately from what I saw yesterday every single diagram has been damaged by the stickers being the wrong type of adhesive. They are all bubbled at the Walthamstow end. New sections including the Overground interchanges will still not look right. A few pence in planning would have allowed the stickers to be fixed and removed. Shame that those who understand the job have all been paid off. |
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Post by stapler on Nov 15, 2015 22:32:00 GMT
There's a whole science to what sort of adhesive to specify. It's the same with paper labels for books, etc. Get it wrong and you get a hell of a mess.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 10:54:07 GMT
How much do people use the line diagrams when actually route planning? Mostly they're used as "tickers", right (counting the number of stations until you get off when you can't see the station signs).
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Post by melikepie on Nov 17, 2015 10:56:48 GMT
I still do
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Post by snoggle on Nov 17, 2015 12:13:53 GMT
How much do people use the line diagrams when actually route planning? Mostly they're used as "tickers", right (counting the number of stations until you get off when you can't see the station signs). I don't need to use them on the tube or Overground. However there will be many thousands of people who value the reassurance / info the diagrams provide. Where I miss them is on National Rail services where I am less familiar with the station / service patterns. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2015 16:55:24 GMT
Yes, but I'm making the point that fixing the interchanges on the line diagrams isn't as high a priority, because people don't really use them for the interchanges.
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Post by blackhorsesteve on Nov 17, 2015 17:09:07 GMT
I find the term 'Overground' fairly useless on the line maps as it doesn't tell me which Overground line it is. Fortunately I know, however to the layman changing at Walthamstow Central, Blackhorse Road or Seven Sisters is the same thing, although they're on three completely different Overground lines.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 17, 2015 18:54:45 GMT
Yes, but I'm making the point that fixing the interchanges on the line diagrams isn't as high a priority, because people don't really use them for the interchanges. The obvious question is "how do you know?". Easy to make the statement but unless you are asking people on loads of tube trains if / how they use the line diagrams and where they're travelling to you really can't say. People may look all over the place in a tube carriage and it's almost impossible to know what info they're taking in and using. There are some obvious instances where people are talking and pointing and counting the stations on the diagram but IME that's a pretty small proportion of people using the tube / possibly making an interchange. IME of handling LU customer info change requests there has always been a desire to be "on time" with known changes that affect the way people will use the network overall. Obviously the scale of some changes is such that you may need to start a little in advance on the change and the work may run on beyond the change date. This is especially true when dealing with in car line diagrams on large fleets because you're talking about many thousands of diagrams. Crossrail's launch in phases during 2018 and 2019 will be a significant challenge in terms of handling the wayfinding and customer info aspects. |
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