Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2007 17:16:46 GMT
Hi
My query is concerned with the stabling of the loco-hauled coaches at Chesham overnight during the brief period that the through services were hauled by electric locos. Where would the set (112) stable overnight (M-F) at Chesham between arriving at 6.27pm on 5.14pm Liverpool Street - Chesham and departing the next morning (as 119) on 8.12am Chesham - Liverpool Street? On a Saturday the morning arrangements remained the same except the through train arrived in the mid afternoon at 2.45pm as the 1.34pm from Liverpool Street (L8 with set 111). It then stabled at Chesham over the weekend prior to working the 8.12am to Liverpool Street on Monday morning. The loco would return light to Neasden at 4.08pm on Saturday evening.
I have seen pictures in the Middleton Press books of one of the 6-coach 'Dreadnought' sets stabled in Chesham yard during the mid-1950s. As this would have been hauled into Chesham by a steam loco then there would be no issues in that loco being able to run-round and then stable the set in the yard.
With the electric locos being used after September 1960 then I assume that changes would have been made to the stabling of the set. There would be no problem in running round as the loop was fitted with conductor rails but as the yard was not equipped the electric loco would not have access to it and would therefore be unable to shunt its coaches into there - unless of course it left the ECS sticking out of the siding (to allow the loco's shoes access to the juice) and thus blocking access to the rest of the yard as well as the loop. I feel that this would have been highly unlikely as although there were no goods trains booked to run during the night there was the 3.55 am News train from Marylebone (due Chesham at 4.36am) which I think was still steam hauled at the time (although the Middleton Book states it went over to DMU in 1960 - the WTT No 185 does not list the train as a DMU) and would therefore require access to the loop to run round. Additionally it would not have been possible to 'borrow' the loco off the push-pull Chalfont shuttle to shunt the stock as in this timetable (No 185) it had been replaced by a 3car set of T stock.
An interesting point (well to me anyways ;D ) is that the first hauled train into Chesham in the morning (6.00am ECS Neasden Depot - Chesham a 6.59) was top-and tailed with an electric loco at each end (L5 and L6) . The rear loco L6 took the stock (118) back into Baker Street at 7.31am. The front loco L5 which hauled the ECS into Chesham then collected the stock that had been stabled overnight (now 119) and took it to Liverpool Street at 8.12am.
A similar movement took place with the evening through trains. The first arrival was at 6.27pm (5.14pm from Liverpool Street) which was hauled by L2 with Set 112. Set 112 was then stabled and L2 awaited its return.
The next arrival was at 6.57pm (5.41pm from Liverpool Street) hauled by L6 with Set 113. L2 then was attached at the Chalfont end of the stock and the whole ensemble (with L6 now on the rear) departed at 7.21pm as a passenger train to Harrow-on-the-Hill then ECS into Neasden Yard. An original thought of mine was that this top and tailing was as a result of the loop not being available for the loco of the second train to run round because the stabled stock was blocking access to it. Points against this are that the incoming loco of the first train L2 would still be needing to go somewhere (I assume here that the crew would be from Neasden and this meant that the loco had to go back there rather than be stabled overnight at Chesham?) . As this move seemed to occur with the steam timetable the logical assumption is that it was done to reduce the line occupancy.
Going back to the stabled set I feel that it would more likely be stabled in the sidings,neck,headshunt in advance of no 4 signal and 15 points. It would then be easy enough for the incoming loco L2 on the 6.27pm arrival from Liverpool Street to simply run-round the stock on arrival and then propel it forward into the aforementioned siding. Having secured the stock it would then go and stand on the loop awaiting the 6.57pm arrival from Liverpool Street and attach at the south end when it had arrived.
A similar procedure would apply in the morning. The 6.59am from Neasden would uncouple the front loco L5 on arrival and it would then draw forward past no 4 signal and couple up to the stable stock. The 6.59am arrival would then depart from platform 2 at 7.31am for Baker Street now hauled by L6 which had previously been at the rear. Whence the 7.31am was clear of the platform, L5 could then bring Set 119 into platform 2 ready to depart at 8.12am to Liverpool Street.
Apologies for the extensive amount of detail but I thought it was easier to include it as it made the situation easier to understand. I am hope someone is able ot confirm that I have got things correct and I shall continue to look out for photos.
Incidentally does anybody now which was the first Met Line WTT to include details of the loco and coaching stock diagrams? I have looked at one at Kew from the early 1940s/late 1930s (can't remember the exact date) that did not have the loco diagram numbers. I was looking at the time for details of the workings of the Bo-Bo locos on the through services from Paddington to Liverpool Street/Aldgate.
Thanks in advance for any information or help received.
My query is concerned with the stabling of the loco-hauled coaches at Chesham overnight during the brief period that the through services were hauled by electric locos. Where would the set (112) stable overnight (M-F) at Chesham between arriving at 6.27pm on 5.14pm Liverpool Street - Chesham and departing the next morning (as 119) on 8.12am Chesham - Liverpool Street? On a Saturday the morning arrangements remained the same except the through train arrived in the mid afternoon at 2.45pm as the 1.34pm from Liverpool Street (L8 with set 111). It then stabled at Chesham over the weekend prior to working the 8.12am to Liverpool Street on Monday morning. The loco would return light to Neasden at 4.08pm on Saturday evening.
I have seen pictures in the Middleton Press books of one of the 6-coach 'Dreadnought' sets stabled in Chesham yard during the mid-1950s. As this would have been hauled into Chesham by a steam loco then there would be no issues in that loco being able to run-round and then stable the set in the yard.
With the electric locos being used after September 1960 then I assume that changes would have been made to the stabling of the set. There would be no problem in running round as the loop was fitted with conductor rails but as the yard was not equipped the electric loco would not have access to it and would therefore be unable to shunt its coaches into there - unless of course it left the ECS sticking out of the siding (to allow the loco's shoes access to the juice) and thus blocking access to the rest of the yard as well as the loop. I feel that this would have been highly unlikely as although there were no goods trains booked to run during the night there was the 3.55 am News train from Marylebone (due Chesham at 4.36am) which I think was still steam hauled at the time (although the Middleton Book states it went over to DMU in 1960 - the WTT No 185 does not list the train as a DMU) and would therefore require access to the loop to run round. Additionally it would not have been possible to 'borrow' the loco off the push-pull Chalfont shuttle to shunt the stock as in this timetable (No 185) it had been replaced by a 3car set of T stock.
An interesting point (well to me anyways ;D ) is that the first hauled train into Chesham in the morning (6.00am ECS Neasden Depot - Chesham a 6.59) was top-and tailed with an electric loco at each end (L5 and L6) . The rear loco L6 took the stock (118) back into Baker Street at 7.31am. The front loco L5 which hauled the ECS into Chesham then collected the stock that had been stabled overnight (now 119) and took it to Liverpool Street at 8.12am.
A similar movement took place with the evening through trains. The first arrival was at 6.27pm (5.14pm from Liverpool Street) which was hauled by L2 with Set 112. Set 112 was then stabled and L2 awaited its return.
The next arrival was at 6.57pm (5.41pm from Liverpool Street) hauled by L6 with Set 113. L2 then was attached at the Chalfont end of the stock and the whole ensemble (with L6 now on the rear) departed at 7.21pm as a passenger train to Harrow-on-the-Hill then ECS into Neasden Yard. An original thought of mine was that this top and tailing was as a result of the loop not being available for the loco of the second train to run round because the stabled stock was blocking access to it. Points against this are that the incoming loco of the first train L2 would still be needing to go somewhere (I assume here that the crew would be from Neasden and this meant that the loco had to go back there rather than be stabled overnight at Chesham?) . As this move seemed to occur with the steam timetable the logical assumption is that it was done to reduce the line occupancy.
Going back to the stabled set I feel that it would more likely be stabled in the sidings,neck,headshunt in advance of no 4 signal and 15 points. It would then be easy enough for the incoming loco L2 on the 6.27pm arrival from Liverpool Street to simply run-round the stock on arrival and then propel it forward into the aforementioned siding. Having secured the stock it would then go and stand on the loop awaiting the 6.57pm arrival from Liverpool Street and attach at the south end when it had arrived.
A similar procedure would apply in the morning. The 6.59am from Neasden would uncouple the front loco L5 on arrival and it would then draw forward past no 4 signal and couple up to the stable stock. The 6.59am arrival would then depart from platform 2 at 7.31am for Baker Street now hauled by L6 which had previously been at the rear. Whence the 7.31am was clear of the platform, L5 could then bring Set 119 into platform 2 ready to depart at 8.12am to Liverpool Street.
Apologies for the extensive amount of detail but I thought it was easier to include it as it made the situation easier to understand. I am hope someone is able ot confirm that I have got things correct and I shall continue to look out for photos.
Incidentally does anybody now which was the first Met Line WTT to include details of the loco and coaching stock diagrams? I have looked at one at Kew from the early 1940s/late 1930s (can't remember the exact date) that did not have the loco diagram numbers. I was looking at the time for details of the workings of the Bo-Bo locos on the through services from Paddington to Liverpool Street/Aldgate.
Thanks in advance for any information or help received.
